Spirituality
17 Aug 12
18 Aug 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadI have no idea how people conclude James is the brother of Jesus. Outside the bible there are many references to James the brother of the lord, the same title appears in the bible too. One must remember that the Jews replaced the tetragrammaton (name of God) with Adonai (lord) so all those James references say "James the brother of Yahweh" which incidentally was a known sect in the 1st century CE.
If its not recorded in the fairy tale, then you make it up. Notice how RJHinds and Suzianne give different figures yet talk about them like they are obvious facts. Either there are multiple versions of the myth, or one of them is making it up as we go along.
18 Aug 12
Originally posted by Phil HillYou apparently don't realize that Christ is the Lord.
I have no idea how people conclude James is the brother of Jesus. Outside the bible there are many references to James the brother of the lord, the same title appears in the bible too. One must remember that the Jews replaced the tetragrammaton (name of God) with Adonai (lord) so all those James references say "James the brother of Yahweh" which incidentally was a known sect in the 1st century CE.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)
18 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsThere is something you apparently don't realize. If you are a Christian since you called me numbnuts I couldn't care less about anything you say. There is a chance that you are a Poe like FMF indicates and in that case I couldn't care less what you say since you are a sad waste of a life.
You apparently don't realize that Christ is the Lord.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)
18 Aug 12
Originally posted by Phil HillYour life may be a sad waste if you do not listen. I guess you wish to take the chance. You have the free will to do so.
There is something you apparently don't realize. If you are a Christian since you called me numbnuts I couldn't care less about anything you say. There is a chance that you are a Poe like FMF indicates and in that case I couldn't care less what you say since you are a sad waste of a life.
18 Aug 12
2 edits
Originally posted by twhitehead
Where? I thought that was strictly against Roman Catholic doctrine, so surely it isn't clearly stated?
Where? I thought that was strictly against Roman Catholic doctrine, so surely it isn't clearly stated?
Matthew 2:7 says Mary "bore her firstborn son".
We may assume others followed because the acquantences refered to the brothers and sisters of Jesus.
"Is not this the carpenter's son ? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" (Matthew 13:55,56; Mark 6:3)
Mark 3:21 refers to His relatives. That probably includes immediate family relatives.
In Matthew 12:47 His mother and brothers were trying to see Him.
"While He was still speaking to the crowds, His mother and His brothers stood outside seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, Behold Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
James was the name of a brother of Jesus Christ. He first did not believe, but latter became a trusted leader in the early church life in Jerusalem
James, like the Lord's other siblings, was not supportive of Jesus during his early ministry. The apostle John makes the point that even his own brothers did not believe in him (John 7:5). However, that was to change. Among those disciples who were found with the apostles in Jerusalem following the Lord's ascension were his brothers, which obviously included James, who was to later play a prominent role in the Jerusalem church (Acts 1:14).
According to Paul, an inspired apostle, Jesus appeared to James following his resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:7). ...
James became a leading figure in the church at Jerusalem. When Peter was released from prison he came to the house of Mary where many in the church had come together to pray for him (Acts 12:12). According to Peter's account of that evening, the Lord had instructed him to tell James and the brethren of his prison escape, which Peter then did (Acts 12:17).
[ copied from Roger A. Rush's Gospel Gazette. http://www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/1999/jun/page5.shtml ]
Originally posted by twhiteheadSome have suggested these brothers and sisters were cousins or more distant relations. If true, why didn’t the writers use the Greek term for cousins (anepsios)? The Greek word did exist and was used in Scripture (Colossians 4:10). If they were more distant relatives, then why not use a Greek word that meant relatives (suggenes), such as the one describing Mary and Elizabeth’s relational status in Luke 1:36? Why did Matthew and Mark use the words most commonly translated as brothers (adelphos) and sisters (adelphe)? In any other context no one would have questioned this meaning.
Where? I thought that was strictly against Roman Catholic doctrine, so surely it isn't clearly stated?
A logical point concerning this passage was brought up by expositor Adam Clarke in his commentary:
Why should the children of another family be brought in here to share a reproach which it is evident was designed for Joseph the carpenter, Mary his wife, Jesus their son, and their other children? Prejudice apart, would not any person of plain common sense suppose, from this account, that these were the children of Joseph and Mary, and the brothers and sisters of our Lord, according to the flesh?
It seems rather obvious that these Gospel accounts refer to Joseph’s and Mary’s children. Why would these people criticize Jesus by mentioning his father (as they presumed) and mother and then seemingly switch to distant relatives?
The Apostle Paul also claimed that Jesus had at least one brother. Concerning his first trip to Jerusalem after his conversion, Paul wrote, “But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother” (Galatians 1:19).
The first chapter of Acts tells how the disciples met to select a replacement for Judas. Luke specifically singled out Mary and the brothers of Jesus.
Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey. And when they had entered, they went up into the upper room where they were staying: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers. (Acts 1:12–14)
To claim Mary was a perpetual virgin even after Christ was born is to deny the words of the Apostle Matthew, who wrote, “Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS” (Matthew 1:24–25, emphasis added).
“Knew” was a modest way of describing sexual relations in ancient times. For example, Adam knew Eve, and she conceived Cain, and he knew her again, and she bore Seth (Genesis 4:1, 25). Cain knew his wife, and she bore Enoch (Genesis 4:17 ). If Joseph never knew Mary at all, the phrase “till she had brought forth her firstborn Son” is pointless. Obviously, Joseph did not sleep with Mary until after she gave birth to Jesus, fulfilling both parts of the prophecy (virginal conception and virgin birth, as Isaiah 7:14 states, “the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son,” emphasis added). But this means Joseph did know her after she gave birth to Jesus, so she was no longer a virgin.
In fact, sex within marriage is not a sin but is a creation ordinance within marriage that existed prior to sin and the Curse. Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24 in Matthew 19:5–6, reiterating “the two shall be one flesh.”
Consider that God commanded people to be fruitful and multiply in Genesis 1:28 and twice in Genesis 9 (verses 1 and 7). Malachi 2:14–15 indicates one reason for marriage is to have godly offspring. Why would Mary be disobedient to God? Since she was truly a godly woman, she would have respected His commands and honor them. Having at least two daughters and five sons would indeed be fulfilling God’s commands to be fruitful and multiply.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/05/31/perpetual-virginity-mary
18 Aug 12
Originally posted by SwissGambitWell, considering that even today, Jews consider the age when one becomes a man, the bar mitzvah ritual, as 13. Girls have their bat mitzvah ritual at 12, and are then considered a woman. I don't see why the tradition should change now.
12? Isn't that a bit young? Was she even ovulating yet? 😕
Clearly, Mary was capable of carrying a child to term.
18 Aug 12
Originally posted by SwissGambitActually, my reasoning for assuming this is because Mary was already given over to Joseph to become his wife, yet the ritual was not yet complete. During the betrothal period, the Annunciation took place, and a few months later, when Joseph was told about it in a dream, he then completed the wedding rites. This wedding process probably would have occurred during Mary's 12th year.
Yes, but the Jews were allegedly marrying off all their 12-year-olds, and they were allegedly all fully fertile, which allows us to assume that Mary gave birth at age 12 or 13. 😕
18 Aug 12
Originally posted by SuzianneBut you're also saying she gave birth at age 12 or 13. The average age of fertility was higher a century or two ago; who knows what it was at ~0 BCE. How can you be so sure Mary was able to conceive at such a young age? What if her age of fertility was higher than average?
Actually, my reasoning for assuming this is because Mary was already given over to Joseph to become his wife, yet the ritual was not yet complete. During the betrothal period, the Annunciation took place, and a few months later, when Joseph was told about it in a dream, he then completed the wedding rites. This wedding process probably would have occurred during Mary's 12th year.