Do your religious beliefs 'liberate' you?

Originally posted by @fmf
And this is, of course, true for some people, as I'm sure you know. Weed does not make everyone high. Do you think it does?

Sure I just don't get why someone who supposedly has never been high on weed would go around propagating the fact when it is all hearsay to them.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Sure I just don't get why someone who supposedly has never been high on weed would go around propagating the fact when it is all hearsay to them.

Some people get high from smoking weed. Some don't. What is the issue?

Originally posted by @fmf
Some people get high from smoking weed. Some don't. What is the issue?

The issue is how do you know for a fact that people feel 'liberated' by religion when you yourself did not feel 'liberated' by your religious beliefs?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
The issue is how do you know for a fact that people feel 'liberated' by religion when you yourself did not feel 'liberated' by your religious beliefs?

Because I am able to interact with people intellectually and spiritually, I can listen and I can comprehend ~ and therefore explore ~ what they are saying. And I have done so through genuine dialogues with people I have encountered my whole life long. You should try it.

Originally posted by @fmf
Because I am able to interact with people intellectually and spiritually, I can listen and I can comprehend ~ and therefore explore ~ what they are saying. And I have done so through genuine dialogues with people I have encountered my whole life long. You should try it.

What in your mind is the reason why some people feel liberated by religion and why some people don't?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
What in your mind is the reason why some people feel liberated by religion and why some people don't?

It's probably because not all people are 'wired' the same.

Originally posted by @fmf
Because I am able to interact with people intellectually and spiritually, I can listen and I can comprehend ~ and therefore explore ~ what they are saying. And I have done so through genuine dialogues with people I have encountered my whole life long. You should try it.

So when someone tells you something it means that you now know that what they are saying is true? 🙄

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So when someone tells you something it means that you now know that what they are saying is true? 🙄

If what you are getting at is that you think that some people may have said some untrue things to me over the last 30+ years, then we can agree to agree that that may well have been the case.

You told me that your religious beliefs make you feel 'liberated' from the fear of death and "the penalty of sin". In the spirit of the daft question you have just asked me (above), I ask you this: When someone like you tells me something - like what you told me about yourself and your religious beliefs - does it mean that I don't know whether or not what you said was true? No need to answer.

If your reaction to my observation about many of the religious people I have met is really something along the lines of how my observations might not be true because the things those religious people were saying might not have been true, then I think you need to grow up a bit if you are to have proper conversations with grown ups.

Originally posted by @fmf
This is not an answer to my question about "self control". Nor does it address the OP. If you want to talk about your admiration for Jesus as he is depicted by those who have built a cult of personality around him, start a thread about it.

Is there something wrong with admiring Jesus ?

- sonship

Originally posted by @fmf
No. If the definition of "religious beliefs" is a stumbling block for you, and you are therefore unable or unwilling to address Brian Eno's comment, then so be it.

I didn't ask Brian Eno. I didn't watch the Youtube.
I asked you. The personality cult thing around Brian Eno can wait, though he may have done a charisamatic video..

How do I know that "religious" is just the term people use to talk about what they have not experienced spiritually?

I mean they have to call people something who may be having experiences they don't have yet.

- sonship

Originally posted by @gswilm
Is there something wrong with admiring Jesus ?

- sonship

Absolutely not. Most of my family and friends do. If your belief in him gives you solace and purpose etc., then good for you. But the matter in hand on this thread is: do your religious beliefs 'liberate' you? Does Eno have a point or has he used (perhaps) the right word but for the wrong reason .... in terms of the impact of religious beliefs on those that hold them?

Originally posted by @gswilm
I didn't ask Brian Eno. I didn't watch the Youtube.
I asked you. The personality cult thing around Brian Eno can wait, though he may have done a charisamatic video..

How do I know that "religious" is just the term people use to talk about what they have not experienced spiritually?

I mean they have to call people something who may be having experiences they don't have yet.

- sonship

You are welcome to dither and preen over the meaning of words that are common currency in this community. I am simply not interested.

Instead, I'll ask this: Does your belief in Jesus, who he was and what significance you believe his life and death have, 'liberate' you? If so, from what?

As for liberation from the Spirit of Christ and self-control, I know something of what this is talking about.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom (or liberty)" (2 Cor. 3:17)

Those are not just pretty sounding words to me. I have experienced something of that teaching. It is true. I need to experience it more and intend to.

This verse also is not just waffle to me. It is meaningful to what I have passed through.

"There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death." (Rom. 8:1,2)

I can read that and say -
"Hey, I recognize that experience. I know something of what the New Testament is saying when it says this. THIS explains something of what I have experience as a lover of Jesus."

I would be dishonest if I said that I have no idea what these two passages are saying. I do. It is part of the normal (if not average) Christian life.

- sonship

Originally posted by @gswilm
As for liberation from the Spirit of Christ and self-control, I know something of what this is talking about.

[b]"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom (or liberty)" (2 Cor. 3:17)

Those are not just pretty sounding words to me. I have experienced something of that teaching. It is true. I ...[text shortened]... assages are saying. I do. It is part of the normal (if not average) Christian life.

- sonship[/b]

What do you mean by "freed" or 'liberated' from "sin"? Don't you believe that you "sin" all the time?

I don't know what FMF means when he says he is not a religious person. I don't think God or Jesus Christ or the Spirit of Christ a religious person.

I have experienced feeling self-condemnation like Paul said when he cried out "Wretched man that I am. Who will deliver enemy from the body of this death."

Thank God I also could say (Brother Paul, I know just what you mean when you wrote)

"There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

For the law of the Spirit of life has FREED me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death." (Rom. 8:1,2)

I understand that. I have experienced that. That should be the normal everyday, and even hour by hour experience of a Christian.

Freedom from the self condemnation of feeling overcome by the power of sinning. There is freedom in the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. I want to experience this more.