06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @karoly-aczelKaroly .. good to see you back in town...
Church shld always be free and keeping with the spirit of the times
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaThe brotherhood of Christ or body of Christ exists on the earth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. You assume it is the Catholic Church.
You say that the gates of hell have alreayd prevailed against the Church.
This is directly against the passage:
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18.
What is the meaning of this?
The general and most bro ...[text shortened]... shall not triumph over the church and that there shall always be the legitimate church on earth.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
06 Jun 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @rajk999
Unlike you I do not know who will enter the kingdom of God. You say it is those who profess faith.
MY reading comprehension senses that you are STALING to answer the question about whether or not you are a believer in GOD , period, or NOT.
So far, no taking a stand one way or another.
Jesus said it is those who follow the commandments. And he said it clearly many times.. Jesus said if you want eternal life follow the commandments .
My reading comprehension STILL detects no honest and straight forward answer to the questions if you even believe God exists or not.
Atheist will be judged. If i had to guess my money would be on an atheist that helps the needy feeds the poor. A Christian that does not do these things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
I'm both reading and comprehending and STILL see no answer to the basic question - You believe God IS? Or you do NOT believe God is?
Maybe double spacing would help (along with some guts to tell the world where you are).
You mean you can't get any clarity from JewsForJudaism about God's existence right now ?
So the answer is YES. An atheist who lives according to the commandments of Christ is in the brotherhood of Christ. A Christian who does not do these good works is not in the brotherhood of Christ.
I see you are laboring on ANOTHER question.
So be it. You're wrong.
The brotherhood of the Church is a brotherhood because all the brothers possess the SAME LIFE.
In addition to the life they were born with naturally, God has dispensed into His life. And the SHARING of that divine life makes them children of God and brothers of the Son of God.
"As many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name.
Who were begotten not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man,
but of God." (John 1:12,13)
How's YOUR reading comprehension ?
1.) As many as RECEIVE HIM. Not as many as RECEIVED HIM PLUS as many as REJECTED HIM.
2.) The RECEIVERS are granted authority to be children of God. That puts them in the BROTHERHOOD.
3.) The entrance into the BROTHERHOOD is a matter of divine BIRTH - being BEGOTTEN -
" ... who were begotten ... of God."
That means BORN of God.
Receiving Christ - Being BORN of God - leading to being CHILDREN of God - leading to being in the BROTHERHOOD.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
06 Jun 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @rajk999I think this brother would speak of the Greek Orthodox Church not the Roman Catholic Church. But he is well able to speak for himself.
The brotherhood of Christ or body of Christ exists on the earth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. You assume it is the Catholic Church.
I go back to the New Testament. Churches belong to cities.
The universal church is expressed normally on earth as local churches - one city - one local church.
"What you see write in a scroll and sent it to the SEVEN CHURCHES:
to Ephesus
and to Smyrna
and to Pergamos
and to Thyatira
and to Sardis
and to Philodelphia
and to Laodicea.
And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands ..." (Rev. 1:11-12)
No denominations but one locality matched with one locality wide church.
That is what God is recovering today.
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @rajk999Some questions, then:
Read Matt 5 6 and 7.
Matt 25.
The parable of the Good Samaritan
The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
In Matthew 6, at the end, they speak about putting all faith in God providing for us. How can an atheist fulfill this?
In Matthew 7:22, they speak about casting out devils int he name of God. You believe that there are people who become possessed by demons, right, and in the depths of the spiritual warfare that wages across the world.
What does that mean fo ran atheist?
And what of this passage:
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11:6 KJV
Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @rajk999No, I will be generous and say that I believe it is the Catholic, Orthodox, and mainline Protestant churches, and I will include with it any other churches that baptize with the name of the Holy Spirit and seek God in good faith.
The brotherhood of Christ or body of Christ exists on the earth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. You assume it is the Catholic Church.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by @rajk999You're looking for help aren't you?
Karoly .. good to see you back in town...
Need plenty of atheist help ?
The Body of Christ is His Body because it has His LIFE.
No foreign element that does not have HIS LIFE can be a part of His Body.
So I ask again.
Is an Atheist who you think is following the commands of Jesus one who has the LIFE of Jesus ?
If he does NOT have the life of Jesus how then can he be in the Body of Christ ?
You're a two bit heretic.
You call me a dunce and in response I call you a toilet hearted two bit heretic that flunked out of the Watchtower Kingdom Hall somewhere.
Enter Atheist Ghost to remind me to turn the other cheek no doubt.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by @rajk999Rajk999,
The brotherhood of Christ or body of Christ exists on the earth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. You assume it is the Catholic Church. -
When Jesus resurrected from the dead He said to go and tell His BROTHERS.
Did those BROTHERS include Judas Iscariot ?
Did those BROTHERS include Atheists ?
"Jesus said to her, ... go and tell my brothers and say to them, I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God." (See John 20:17)
An Atheist does not believe God exists. God is not his God.
Is such an Atheist in the BROTHERHOOD of the Christian church ?
You're blind as a bat if you say yes.
06 Jun 18
Rajk,
I understand that you can construct a scenario where you have a Christian hypocrite who does everything wrong,
And that there is another scenario where there is an atheist person who actually fulfills the moral criteria, in a general sense, of being a good Christian...
But what about the notion that He has no faith in God?
What about the general view within Christianity, and advanced by the Saints, that man does no good of his own accord?
You also posted Matthew 6 as a chapter I should read -- this is a chapter that focused on the idea that a man who looks at a woman with lust in his heart has fornicated in his heart.
Have you ever known an atheist to say "Geez, I think having sexual fantasies at all is bad. I believe in the spiritual significance of fornication within the heart and I am really serious about upholding this massively high criteria of morality..."
I don't really get how you would focus on this idea of the glory & majesty of atheists and their abilty to enter the Kingdom fo God.
Give us more insight into this perspective.
Originally posted by @philokaliaMatthew 21
Rajk,
I understand that you can construct a scenario where you have a Christian hypocrite who does everything wrong,
And that there is another scenario where there is an atheist person who actually fulfills the moral criteria, in a general sense, of being a good Christian...
But what about the notion that He has no faith in God?
What abou ...[text shortened]... ts and their abilty to enter the Kingdom fo God.
Give us more insight into this perspective.
28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you. 32“For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.
Which of the two sons truly has what you call "faith in God"? The one who professes "faith in God" or the one who does it?
Originally posted by @sonshipYou really are full of useless churchy preaching waffle. Here you are trying to make a story by conflating the "body of Christ", i.e. the world-wide spiritually connected network of believers with your love of your own "local church" denomination; the corporate entity itself.
Don't hate the very word "church". Pray for the recovery of the proper church life.
The word "church" has been greatly spoiled. But Christ LOVED the church and gave Himself up for the church.
How can the Christian despise the church ?
[quote] [b] "Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her.
That ...[text shortened]... should love what Jesus Christ loves. Seek Him for the recovery of the normal church experience.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by @thinkofone
32“For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.
Which of the two sons truly has what you call "faith in God"? The one who professes "faith in God" or the one who does it?
The lesson that Jesus intended to drive home is in the VERY VERSE you quoted.
Read His OWN interpretation of his parable again, you closet atheist.
32 “For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him. "
The one bad people who "DID BELIEVE HIM" - that is God's servant John the Baptist. They entered into doing God's will by their repentance.
Those who you might expect to have entered in first as examples to all DID NOT.
06 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipMatthew 21
[quote] 32“For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.
Which of the two sons truly has what you call "faith in God"? The one who professes "faith in God" or the one who does it? [/quote ...[text shortened]... repentance.
Those who you might expect to have entered in first as examples to all DID NOT.
28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you. 32“For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.
Which of the two sons truly "believes him"? The one who claims to "believe him" or the one who does it?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
06 Jun 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @divegeesterYou have nothing here to contribute but usual insults.
You really are full of useless churchy preaching waffle. Here you are trying to make a story by conflating the "body of Christ", i.e. the world-wide spiritually connected network of believers with your love of your own "local church" denomination; the corporate entity itself.
I went through my "against organization" phase as a Christian. And one day someone wisely pointed out that I was going to an illogical extreme.
Jesus had the people sit down in groups of 100s and 50s.
" And He ordered them to have all recline by companies on the green grass.
And they sat down by groups, by hundreds and by fifties." (Mark 6:40)
Ooops. So much for "Jesus doesn't do any organizing."
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
06 Jun 18
So Divegeester chimes in that where he sees organization that can't be the church. Let's examine his criticism closer.
Dive,
Tell me. Which denomination was "all the saints in Philippi" ?
"Paul and Timothy slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the overseers and deacons. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:1,2)
Were they not the church in Philippi because they had some order about who were the overseers and who were the deacons ?
Now we'll see if you live up to your advertised reputation that you don't evade my questions.