29 Mar 08
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't see anywhere in the original post that this thread was addressed to atheists only.
Did nobody see the word "atheist" in the original post?
And from your comment, do you believe in the existence of Hell? If you do then why would someone who knows he is going there not be afraid.
I wont even get into the whole what is a soul thing as that would ruin the thread which was addressed to atheists.
The topic of this thread is about the dread of death, and my comment was addressed specifically to that subject.
The prospect of the inevitability of death should cause one to consider whether or not, with the death of the body, there isn't something about ourselves that continues to live.
If death in fact brings one into a state of non-existence, then there is nothing to fear. But if we are more than just a material body, then one should seriously consider the possibility of an after life.
29 Mar 08
Originally posted by dottewellI am an atheist and when I die I expect to lose everything. Of course I find death scary but by the time I die I expect that I have already experienced all that I have desired to experience so I will only regret the loss of my faculties such that I could not derive feelings of further pleasure and fulfillment. I cannot control the eventuality of death so I will experience life so that I can experience pleasure and fulfillment as much as I can for as long as possible. So then to live life learn how to lead a healthy lifestyle with good diet, exercise, sufficient sleep thus maximizing the scope of your faculties. I think it is wholesome to become exposed to ideas so read philosophy, about other cultures and generally good literature; travel the world if possible. I’ve found comedy and some music to be great. Importantly, get involved in activities you enjoy that comprise good people. Most importantly with people be sincere and pleasant. Enjoy the ride.
A friend recently asked how an atheist should deal with the prospect of death. I admit I was at a bit of a loss - it is ultimately a very upsetting thought indeed.
Any comments?
If you have strived to live a healthy lifestyle, cannot feel good about yourself and do not know what to do to change then it is necessary to seek help; there are many counseling services – use them. It is not rational to live persistently with unhappiness, discontent, fear or pain so action should be taken when possible to improve the self – accept what must be accepted and improve what can be improved for one’s own sake.
29 Mar 08
4 edits
Originally posted by vistesd"The fact that I am going to die leads me to try to live as richly and well as I can now, in what I call the simple bliss of being."
Pain frightens me; death does not. I try to focus on the flow of the symphony while it lasts, but I don’t avoid thinking about dying. I suspect that (depending on circumstances of course) I’ll be sad to die. The fact that I am going to die leads me to try to live as richly and well as I can now, in what I call the simple bliss of being.
In short, my w ...[text shortened]... s irrelevant to whether or not one is an atheist (the reverse, I think, does not hold, however).
I question the premise of the idea that death should be a motive for trying to live as richly a life as one can while one is alive. I would rather think that living and life would be a better motive. While death is bound to take us all, it is life itself that offers us possibilities. And while we can debate what may come after we die, it is what we have now while we live that gives us motive for living.
"we believe what we believe because we think it is true,.."
Or maybe we believe what we believe because we KNOW it's true?! To simply have faith in something we think is true doesn't leave room for absolutes. It leaves the door open to doubt, and doubt is not faith. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the EVIDENCE of things not seen."
The prospect of death should motivate us to consider what may come after. Unless one knows absolutely that death brings the end of life, then the way one lives now is brought into question.
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29 Mar 08
Originally posted by dottewellIf I lived forever, my life would be a relentless bore. Therefore, death is a consolation.
A friend recently asked how an atheist should deal with the prospect of death. I admit I was at a bit of a loss - it is ultimately a very upsetting thought indeed.
Any comments?
29 Mar 08
Originally posted by dottewellI don't want to die, but part of growing up is accepting that you don't always get what you want. Facing up to that in the ultimate sense of death is something which I can't claim to have done, yet it is something I strive for. In the meantime, I concentrate on life rather than death.
A friend recently asked how an atheist should deal with the prospect of death. I admit I was at a bit of a loss - it is ultimately a very upsetting thought indeed.
Any comments?
Speaking specifically as an atheist, I see this as my one short-lived chance to do what I can to leave the world a slightly better place than I left it. While I won't live to see my future children and loved ones continue that possibly hopeless struggle against entropy, my love of them in the present is what I view as my motivation to live a good life.
My actions in my life will not affect me after death, I will not be rewarded or punished. My actions will have an affect on those I leave behind, and that motivates me to lead a good life in as far as I can.
My view of many religions is that they seek to give this justice system which will reward or punish according to your actions after death, I see this as selfish. My actions are governed by their affects on others, not by their affect on me after death.
I fear dying, I like life, but I won't let death take me early by allowing it to occupy my thoughts incessently.
29 Mar 08
Originally posted by dottewellyoull be dead before you know what hit you thats why death is not a bad thing necessarily, it can also be a good thing for some people; it cant be bad though, it just is.
A friend recently asked how an atheist should deal with the prospect of death. I admit I was at a bit of a loss - it is ultimately a very upsetting thought indeed.
Any comments?
29 Mar 08
A cessation of experience is not something I can really comprehend. I don't want to die, because I adore being alive, but I don't fear death. As vistesd says pain is something I fear because it's something I can experience and remember and have direct contact with. Death is not, it's just nothingness, there's nothing to it, no content, no beliefs, no ramifications, it's just the absence of life. I don't really know what there would be to fear.
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29 Mar 08
Originally posted by josephwNo; I enjoy my life. But if it continued in this manner forever, I would become bored. I am reminded of the phrase "honey becomes loathsome in its sweetness" - too much of the same thing spoils its beauty. I am reminded of one of William Blake's poems Eternity,
[b]"If I lived forever, my life would be a relentless bore."
Why? Because your life is boring now? How can growing and learning about all there is to know forever be boring?[/b]
He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy.
But he who kisses the joy as it flies,
Lives in eternity's sunrise.
The only way I could enjoy such eternity is through constant reinvention of myself, finding new ambitions and interests. And if so, then my identity would become something formless - something I find even more irksome.
So, I hope to reach a stage in my life where I can be privileged enough to be so bored of life that death will be welcome.
29 Mar 08
Originally posted by Conrau K"He who binds to himself a joy
No; I enjoy my life. But if it continued in this manner forever, I would become bored. I am reminded of the phrase "honey becomes loathsome in its sweetness" - too much of the same thing spoils its beauty. I am reminded of one of William Blake's poems Eternity,
[quote]He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy.
But he who ...[text shortened]... my life where I can be privileged enough to be so bored of life that death will be welcome.
Does the winged life destroy.
But he who kisses the joy as it flies,
Lives in eternity's sunrise."
Excellent poem, and a wonderful thought! Thanks!
Why would you think that your identity would become formless? Why wouldn't you think it would become more defined as you became evermore aware of the mysteries of life?
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30 Mar 08
Originally posted by josephwExcellent poem, and a wonderful thought! Thanks!
[b]"He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy.
But he who kisses the joy as it flies,
Lives in eternity's sunrise."
Excellent poem, and a wonderful thought! Thanks!
Why would you think that your identity would become formless? Why wouldn't you think it would become more defined as you became evermore aware of the mysteries of life?[/b]
My pleasure. I think it is a simple Christian moralism to avoid gluttony. But I interpret more broadly to mean that eternity is best glimpsed in fleeting pleasure.
why would you think that your identity would become formless?
Because I can only remain interested in something for so long. I used to like ice hockey, but having seen a thousand games, no longer feel any satisfaction in the game. So, if I lived eternally, I would need to repeatedly find new interests, hobbies, ambitions. And as so, my identity would be in a state of constant change.
Why wouldn't you think it would become more defined as you became evermore aware of the mysteries of life?
Because I expect I would become bored of the mysteries of life. I accept that maybe not everyone would feel this way - but it is not for me.
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30 Mar 08
I think this is an interesting poem on the subject of fear of death.
DEATH be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadfull, for, thou art not so,
For, those, whom thou think'st, thou dost overthrow,
Die not, poore death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
From rest and sleepe, which but thy pictures bee, 5
Much pleasure, then from thee, much more must flow,
And soonest our best men with thee doe goe,
Rest of their bones, and soules deliverie.
Thou art slave to Fate, Chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poyson, warre, and sicknesse dwell, 10
And poppie, or charmes can make us sleepe as well,
And better then thy stroake; why swell'st thou then;
One short sleepe past, wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; death, thou shalt die.
John Donne.
As he reasons, death cannot really kill (because of an afterlife); death is akin to sleep (which brings pleasure); good people die, and so can rest; and death is a slave to chance and war and murderers, and occurs in grubby and shameful places. Some excellent reasons not to fear death!
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30 Mar 08
Originally posted by dottewellI am an atheist myself, I find the mere notion of myself being dead difficult to imagine, but also, and perhaps because of this, I find it rather scary, so I try not to think about it.
A friend recently asked how an atheist should deal with the prospect of death. I admit I was at a bit of a loss - it is ultimately a very upsetting thought indeed.
Any comments?
However, being relatively young (17), I cling some hope that (and this may sound crazy) with the way medical technology has been improving over the many decades that I weren't here, that my life's length may be able to be extended (I would hope indefinitely!).
Alternateively, considering the rate at which computer and robotic technology is improving, perhaps it is possible that I may be able to get a nice robot body!
Who knows? 😲