Elimination of ego

Originally posted by black beetle
I love the lyrics of Psalm 137, for they are crystal clear and powerful; is it my ego or myself the one who loves this Psalm?
😵

Who is “yourself” that is not the “ego”?

Behind the makings of the mind,
before all concepts, thoughts or words—
can you find an “I”
that is not just another thought,
another making of the mind?

What you’re looking for
is what you’re looking with!
How then, will you “find” it?

________________________________________________

“No holiness, vast emptiness!”

—Bodhidharma

“There is really no such thing as empty mind, only clear mind.”

—Nakagawa Soen Roshi

__________________________________________________

My “ego” likes complication; it likes the game of getting trapped in complexity. Back to Zen!

“Spring comes,
and the grass grows all by itself.”

Originally posted by vistesd
Who is “yourself” that is not the “ego”?

Behind the makings of the mind,
before all concepts, thoughts or words—
can you find an “I”
that is not just another thought,
another making of the mind?

What you’re looking for
is what you’re looking with!
How then, will you “find” it?

________________________________________________

“No holiness, v ...[text shortened]... ting trapped in complexity. Back to Zen!

“Spring comes,
and the grass grows all by itself.”

I bow!

Originally posted by black beetle
I bow!

I bow in return.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
It doesn't seem that you understand the cause and effect here. It is the rationalization, confirmation bias, etc., that emanates from the ego that gives an individual a distorted view of reality.

I'm sure there are more than a few things giving us a distorted view
of reality, not just our rationalization, and so on. Our bias, lusts,
desires, greed, and so on are thrown into the mix as well.
Kelly

Originally posted by black beetle
"Ego" is the glance that keeps you Separated😵

Its the what you choose to see while walking away from the mirror. 🙂
Reality sometimes shakes us up a little by shinning truth upon our
souls.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Its the what you choose to see while walking away from the mirror. 🙂
Reality sometimes shakes us up a little by shinning truth upon our
souls.
Kelly

You like complication😵

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The ego seeks a sense of well-being if not to 'feel good' which leaves the individual with a distorted view of themselves and the world, i.e. reality.

Are there any systems of belief that don't ultimately fulfill the ego?

Granted, many don't seem to be so ego fulfilling as "God accepts me the way I am", but still all I can think of seem to advocate a sense of well-being if not bliss or joy as at least part of the ultimate goal.

Are there any systems of belief that don't ultimately fulfill the ego?

Granted, many don't seem to be so ego fulfilling as "God accepts me the way I am", but still all I can think of seem to advocate a sense of well-being if not bliss or joy as at least part of the ultimate goal.
-----------------------------ToOne--------------------------------

Whilst it is true that "happiness" can range from superficial pleasure right through to deep spiritual meaning and contentment , the general priinciple is that you cannot offer to others what you do not possess yourself.


The reason why Spirituality and well being and happiness go together is because unless you love yourself and learn how to be happy you cannot offer happiness and love to others.

How can one give to others what one does not possess oneself? A smoker cannot help anyone give up smoking. A physio who does not look after himself is not to be respected and is ultimately useless.

A sense of well being and wholeness and happiness is essental. Miserable people spread more misery.

Are you suggesting that spiritual people should stay miserable and unhappy or hate themselves instead of loving and accepting themselves? What a farce that would be?

If you look at your life experience you will know that it is those people who have achieved a true sense of well-being and happiness who have given you most in love and have smaller egos.

People who are unhappy at their core are the worst egotists. If you don't know this then you know nothing.

Is your spirituality founded on staying unhappy and a lack of well being? If so I would suggest that you have little to give others.

Originally posted by jaywill
================================
If an individual's "Godless, God opposing, wicked ego was also crucified", then how do you explain that, by and large, Christians are no more moral than the general public?
==================================

1.) I reject your premise that Christians are no more moral than others. I don't think you ...[text shortened]... ot self centered. And we need not adopt a philosophy of Middle Age asceticism.[/b]

"So I reject you off the cuff pseudo statistics that all Christians are no more moral than non-Christians."

I cited no statistics so why the assertion that I did? This is dishonest.

"This passage shows that eternal life is a matter of enjoyng God."

In the passage you cite, no where is it stated that "eternal life is a matter of enjoying God." The passage shows nothing of the sort. Jesus says absolutely nothing of "enjoyment". The fact that you tried to assert otherwise is also dishonest.

So if the ego has been "crucified" in you and replaced with Christ, whence springs your dishonest?

This is an example of the distorted view that remains with one whose belief system has left the ego intact.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm sure there are more than a few things giving us a distorted view
of reality, not just our rationalization, and so on. Our bias, lusts,
desires, greed, and so on are thrown into the mix as well.
Kelly

I don't think you understood my post.

Lusts are examples of the ego seeking "a sense of well-being if not to 'feel good'".

The same goes for greed, pride, gluttony, etc.

Rationalization, confirmation bias, etc. are examples of how the ego distorts reality in order for the individual to accept the above behaviors in themselves. For example, a gluttonous person may tell himself something like, "God put food on earth for me to enjoy, so I'm only partaking in the bounty of God" as he eats himself into obesity. The reality is that eating food makes him "feel good" and he doesn't have control over his desire. In short, he is a slave to this desire and uses rationalization as a way to justify his slavery to himself.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]"So I reject you off the cuff pseudo statistics that all Christians are no more moral than non-Christians."

I cited no statistics so why the assertion that I did? This is dishonest.

"This passage shows that eternal life is a matter of enjoyng God."

In the passage you cite, no where is it stated that "eternal life is a matter of enjo the distorted view that remains with one whose belief system has left the ego intact.[/b]

================================
I cited no statistics so why the assertion that I did? This is dishonest.
================================


I think the dishonesty is on your side. Of not statisics then off the cuff generalities.

To put out your opinion as loose statistical generalities is bias and less than honest on your part.

=================================

"This passage shows that eternal life is a matter of enjoyng God."

In the passage you cite, no where is it stated that "eternal life is a matter of enjoying God." The passage shows nothing of the sort. Jesus says absolutely nothing of "enjoyment". The fact that you tried to assert otherwise is also dishonest.
======================================

The passage does not mentione eternal life per se. But when you compare it to chapter 4 it is very obvious that the Spirit as water is entirely related to eternal life.

Compare:

John 4:14 - "But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no menas thirst forever, but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water gushing up into eternal life."


John 7:37 - ... If anyone thirst, let him come unto Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

But this He said concerning the Spirit ..."

Also we know the water is Spirit in chapter 4 because Jesus says that the Father desires worship in Spirit and in truth.


In both passages the Spirit is symbolized by waters. And in both passages the flow of the Spirit is thirst quenching. And eternal life is explicitly mentioned in John 4:14. The Spirit will gush up into eternal life.


So your superficial familiarity with John's writing is the problem and not any sneaky exegesis on my part.

Incidently, the Spirit is called "the Spirit of life" (Rom 8:2).
That English life is ZOE in Greek - the divine and eternal life.

Also the Spirit gives life (John 6:63, 2 Cor. 3:6).

And the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)[/b]

So you see, you are just still ignorant.


================

So if the ego has been "crucified" in you and replaced with Christ, whence springs your dishonest?
=========================

Where did I ever use the word "replace?" In addition to your ignorance you are also a liar.

If you want to be frank about this.

The vessel containing the life of Christ is not a matter of replacement but indwelling. That is why I spoke of Paul saying "It is Christ who lives IN me."

Originally posted by black beetle
You like complication😵

🙂 No, I really like the simple, but you get enough simple in one place
it is complicated. LOL
Kelly

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I don't think you understood my post.

Lusts are examples of the ego seeking "a sense of well-being if not to 'feel good'".

The same goes for greed, pride, gluttony, etc.

Rationalization, confirmation bias, etc. are examples of how the ego distorts reality in order for the individual to accept the above behaviors in themselves. For example, a glu ...[text shortened]... e to this desire and uses rationalization as a way to justify his slavery to himself.

There are people in our world that feel the world owes them! This
entitlement distorts their views of reality, anything where we leave
truth is just that, when we think the universe revolves around us, it
is we who are puffing up ourselves into something we are not.
Kelly

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]"So I reject you off the cuff pseudo statistics that all Christians are no more moral than non-Christians."

I cited no statistics so why the assertion that I did? This is dishonest.

"This passage shows that eternal life is a matter of enjoyng God."

In the passage you cite, no where is it stated that "eternal life is a matter of enjo ...[text shortened]... the distorted view that remains with one whose belief system has left the ego intact.[/b]

I cited no statistics so why the assertion that I did? This is dishonest.

---------------------ToO--------------------------------

You made a clear statement though , that gave the impression that you knew something about the world which you could not possibly know without the back up of research (if there is any) .

If anyone was being "dishonest" you were first. Haven't you anything to say about the fact that you actually didn't cite any statistics? Or are you freely admitting that your statement " christians are no more moral than the rest of the population" has just been plucked out of the air by you because it fits your biases?

Originally posted by KellyJay
🙂 No, I really like the simple, but you get enough simple in one place
it is complicated. LOL
Kelly

Oh no, not at all! The "place" itself is quite simple🙂

It seems to me that you have "secured" yourself in a fortress of thoughts; no need to try to blow it up though. It would may be enough just to take your sweet time and to realize whether this castle of yours is real or not😵

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]================================
I cited no statistics so why the assertion that I did? This is dishonest.
================================


I think the dishonesty is on your side. Of not statisics then off the cuff generalities.

To put out your opinion as loose statistical generalities is bias and less than honest on you g. That is why I spoke of Paul saying "It is Christ who lives IN me." [/b]

Yet another post with example of the distorted view that remains with one whose belief system has left the ego intact. You seem so prideful and it evidently gets the better of you.

First you back off your original dishonest assertion saying:
"[If] not statisics then off the cuff generalities."

Then come back the very next sentence and reassert what you backed away from:
"To put out your opinion as loose statistical generalities is bias and less than honest on your part.

Wow. Are you kidding me?

Then later you responded to the following:
In the passage you cite, no where is it stated that "eternal life is a matter of enjoying God." The passage shows nothing of the sort. Jesus says absolutely nothing of "enjoyment".

You go off on a look rant about "eternal life" when clearly what I took issue with was your assertion that the passage you cited was about "enjoyment". Then you capped it off by saying, "So you see, you are just still ignorant." Look how your ego affects both your ability to see reality and your behavior.

Then in response to the following:
"So if the ego has been "crucified" in you and replaced with Christ, whence springs your dishonest?"

You come back with:
"Where did I ever use the word "replace?" In addition to your ignorance you are also a liar."

For one, I never said you used the word "replace". For another, my question was based on the following statements by you:
"His ChristLESS ego is poisoned by Satan, in rebellion against God, in darkness morally and spiritually. His salvation is in his accepting that when Christ died on the cross his Godless, God opposing, wicked ego was also crucified. And in receiving Christ into his being - it is no longer empty ego but Christ who has taken up residence within him."

You clearly state that "in receiving Christ into his being - it is no longer empty ego but Christ who has taken up residence within him." So you have an ego that is "no longer" and Christ "who has taken up residence". Sounds like a replacement to me, so I paraphrased it as such. How else could I interpret it? Then you go off and call me a "liar". Wow. Earlier you spoke how "attention is given in the media to Christians being poor testimonies than is given to those who consistently live high morality." If you take an honest look in the mirror, you'll see that you are an example of a "poor testimony" rather than one "who consistently live[s] high morality." Sometimes I wonder if the very culture of Christianity, with all the ego stroking that goes on, doesn't play a large role in so many Christians remaining slaves to pride and ego. Sometimes it seems to only make it all the more pronounced.

If you're only going to go off on yet another round of groundless denials and attacks, don't bother. I wouldn't see much point in responding.