Elimination of ego

Originally posted by twhitehead
So you believe in some amount of democracy then?

[b] then, when we estimate that a law is false or out of order or dated, we are free to prove it and to press in order to have it updated.
How do you go about 'proving' it? Take a vote? Or is it mathematical? You claimed that the no murder law was more or less essential. Has that been proven yet? Wh ...[text shortened]... cialism. Though the most efficient system in use today seems to be the benevolent dictator.[/b]

There is no perfect secular law, sure thing;

Of course I believe in democracy;

I am sure that Shariah law stinks. I can prove it anytime using just my intelligence;

The no murder law is a just man-made law and it is my decision not to kill and to respect it; if you disagree, it is you that you have to bring up your arguments;

Religion is a product of the Human that lacks philosophical reasoning; the products of the Human can exist at a spectrum between the accurate and the false theories, and I use to evaluate every theory according with my intelligence. A product of a false theory is unacceptable, thus I cannot accept to live under a religious law.

The secular law is not free of bias due to the fact tht the Human is not free of bias, but we have anytime the chance to change it as long as we are able to change ourselves whilst we follow our path to our evolution. And surely the secular law does have a better way of coming about than the religious approach.

Originally posted by black beetle
Whatever someone does, he does it because this is what he wants to do according with the evaluation of his mind. The nature of the Human is related to the nature of his mind.

So what? People with their minds kill, steal, destroy is that not within
the human nature? Again, we are what we are, if a lion is being true
to its nature by killing and eating a zebra why are we not true to ours
if we kill, steal, and destroy? If those things are wrong, be it the mind
or the heart, or whatever the driving force within us, than there is within
us something broken!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
So what? People with their minds kill, steal, destroy is that not within
the human nature? Again, we are what we are, if a lion is being true
to its nature by killing and eating a zebra why are we not true to ours
if we kill, steal, and destroy? If those things are wrong, be it the mind
or the heart, or whatever the driving force within us, than there is within
us something broken!
Kelly

The nature of the Human is projected solely by the nature of her/ his mind. Once the Human permits her/ his mind to project greediness and rage and to establish delusion, s/he will act accordingly. If s/he forces her/ his mind to project morality and wisdom, s/he will act accordingly.

There is not such a thing as the so called “sinful nature”, which we are supposed that we have to overcome by means of a so called “savior” or by means of the "religion".

The “something broken” in the Human is just her/ his decision to permit her/ his mind to project greediness and rage and to establish delusion. But you can say that it is in the nature of the Human to make decisions😵

Originally posted by black beetle
The nature of the Human is projected solely by the nature of her/ his mind. Once the Human permits her/ his mind to project greediness and rage and to establish delusion, s/he will act accordingly. If s/he forces her/ his mind to project morality and wisdom, s/he will act accordingly.

There is not such a thing as the so called “sinful nature”, which ...[text shortened]... establish delusion. But you can say that it is in the nature of the Human to make decisions😵

Project morality and wisdom? Please, we act this way or that, we are
what we are! You again grant the lion is what it is when it kills and
eats, it is simply acting as a lion, yet with humans there is something
hidden? Morality and wisdom, and I'm sure you 'believe' you have
a grasp on what those are. If there is something that is wrong with
human behavior when they act some ways, why is that not true for
the lions when they act? Why cannot humans be accountable for their
nature as lions are? A lion is a killer, a meat eater, it acts as it acts
because that is what lions do, and humans kill, lie, steal, they do this,
that, and the other thing; why are we not saying this is what humans
do according to their nature?

It is again after all, WHAT HUMANS DO!? We credit lions for actions
according to their nature, why do you think we are different, because
it feeds your ego?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Project morality and wisdom? Please, we act this way or that, we are
what we are! You again grant the lion is what it is when it kills and
eats, it is simply acting as a lion, yet with humans there is something
hidden? Morality and wisdom, and I'm sure you 'believe' you have
a grasp on what those are. If there is something that is wrong with
human beha ...[text shortened]... ording to their nature, why do you think we are different, because
it feeds your ego?
Kelly

You act this way or that because your mind urges you to act this way or that.

The lion is a lion and the Human is a Human. The lion uses his instict and the Human uses his mind. The asset of the lion is his brutal force and the asset of the Human is his mind. It is in the nature of the lion to kill in order to survive, and it is the nature of the Human to use the evaluation of the mind in order to survive. The lion reigns in his environment whilst the Human has to cooperate with other equal to him persons in his environment. The law of the Human is valid solely in the environment of the Human, therefore a lion cannot be considered a "criminal".

Leaving the differ sociological problems aside, the problem with the Human behaviour is that the Human evaluates his mind wrongly because of the reasons I told you earlier at this thread. The Human is socially accountable for his actions, and his actions are a product of his evaluations and of his personal decisions (whilst this is out of order for the lion). These evaluations and these decisions are caused solely by his mind, thus the nature of the Human is solely the nature of his mind.

Therefore, the Human acts not according to his nature but according to the nature of his mind. The nature of his mind can be understood in full by the Human, thus the Human can control in full his evaluations and be hold fully responsible for his actions because they are the product of his free will. The Human can transform himself on his own by means of Philosophy and Science alone; the lion, a lion remains.

My ego is a projection of my own mind and I destroy it every day, so I am able to constantly transform the mode of my thinking. I transform myself without a "savior" or a religious doctrine, that is😵

Originally posted by black beetle
The lion uses his instict and the Human uses his mind.

This is an over simplification. Both lions and humans use aspects of both instinct and intelligence. I would agree that we depend on our intellects to a greater degree but I am not convinced that we are any less instinctual than lions.

Originally posted by twhitehead
This is an over simplification. Both lions and humans use aspects of both instinct and intelligence. I would agree that we depend on our intellects to a greater degree but I am not convinced that we are any less instinctual than lions.

The Human can raise himself above his instics😵

Originally posted by twhitehead
This is an over simplification. Both lions and humans use aspects of both instinct and intelligence. I would agree that we depend on our intellects to a greater degree but I am not convinced that we are any less instinctual than lions.

On the other hand, I mean that every man is a philosopher, however the lion is not; the nature of the intelligence of the Human has nothing to do with the nature of the intelligence of the lion😵

Originally posted by black beetle
You act this way or that because your mind urges you to act this way or that.

The lion is a lion and the Human is a Human. The lion uses his instict and the Human uses his mind. The asset of the lion is his brutal force and the asset of the Human is his mind. It is in the nature of the lion to kill in order to survive, and it is the nature of the Hum ode of my thinking. I transform myself without a "savior" or a religious doctrine, that is😵

“You act this way or that because your mind urges you to act this way or that.”

No, I even reject that too! Your mind can tell you one thing and you
can still act in another, if that were not true people would not be
addicted to drugs, cigarettes or any number of other things. There
is more at play here than just your mind in my opinion, your intellect
may be a slave to things it knows it should avoid.

You are presenting a distinction without a difference between
the loin and the human, both are still internally choosing to
act and they do so. So why is it you wish to claim that human
nature isn’t one that causes us to lie, kill, and steal? Why do
we get your pass and our actions are not credited to our
nature? People are still doing those things no matter what
internal mechanisms the human creature uses to make its
choices, it is still making choices! Throughout time those
things are the things people choose to do, again why do you
desire to not credit the human race with those items imbedded
in our nature as you do lions when they act?

So what! A human evaluates what they want and at times that
causes them to steal, it causes them to lie, it causes them to
kill and with or without excuse they still do it! It is either part of
our human nature to do those things, or something is broken
within us, and we are doing things we shouldn’t.

Not trying to be insulting here, but the human mind is still part
of the body human! It does not matter if we use our big toes to
make our choices; it is an internal choice and one we throughout
all time make. If that is true, why shouldn’t we acknowledge our
short fall and learn to deal with them?

Your ego is a projection of your mind, okay you think therefore
you are and you still act out the way you act out, and you
do so according to your nature. If you mind argument had any
truth to it, I would except to see smart people commit no crimes
and not harm others; instead what we find is that they do it
better, because they put some thought into it.
Kelly

Originally posted by black beetle
The Human can raise himself above his instics😵

We often can but we frequently do not. Have you for example managed to resist the effects of falling in love? Or did you justify to yourself that in this instance following your instincts wasn't such a bad idea after all?

Originally posted by twhitehead
We often can but we frequently do not. Have you for example managed to resist the effects of falling in love? Or did you justify to yourself that in this instance following your instincts wasn't such a bad idea after all?

Many times I resisted the effects of falling in love; solely once I failed, 12 years ago, and since then I am happily married to my beautiful Maria😵

Originally posted by KellyJay
“You act this way or that because your mind urges you to act this way or that.”

No, I even reject that too! Your mind can tell you one thing and you
can still act in another, if that were not true people would not be
addicted to drugs, cigarettes or any number of other things. There
is more at play here than just your mind in my opinion, your intellec ...[text shortened]... ; instead what we find is that they do it
better, because they put some thought into it.
Kelly

If your mind says you to do one thing and you do something else, it seeems to me that either you are addicted big time or your will is well gone down the drain.

The lion is not a Human. You keep up trying to attribute the same nature to two different existences and you try to judge the first through the latter. This is false. But anyway neither the nature of the lion nor the nature of the Human are sinful.

In my opinion the “something broken” in the Human is just her/ his decision to permit her/ his mind to project greediness and rage and to establish delusion.

Yes, your brain is a part of your body but your mind is your sixth sense. You are responsible in full for the products of your mind, and the products of your mind are the footprints of your existence. For me it is crystal clear that there is not "sinful nature"; there are just wrong choises due to false evaluation of the mind.

The crafty people who they choose to become criminals are not intelligent at all. Intelligence never confronts innocence. Criminality is neither a product of intelligence nor a product of innocence, but craftiness mixed with lack of innocence😵

Originally posted by black beetle
If your mind says you to do one thing and you do something else, it seeems to me that either you are addicted big time or your will is well gone down the drain.

The lion is not a Human. You keep up trying to attribute the same nature to two different existences and you try to judge the first through the latter. This is false. But anyway neither the n ...[text shortened]... duct of intelligence nor a product of innocence, but craftiness mixed with lack of innocence😵

You really are stuck on that, you believe because people can think
they some how do not act according to their human nature, you think
the brain function does away with our natural impulses or something?
You have not addressed the point that even with our brains we are still
doing those things that we abohor outside of saying there is a
weakness within those that do those things. I agree there is a
weakness, but we all share it, along with the fact that there is a proper
way to behave as well which we fall quite short of over and over again
so we justify ourselves each time we do with excuses.
Kelly

Originally posted by black beetle
If your mind says you to do one thing and you do something else, it seeems to me that either you are addicted big time or your will is well gone down the drain.

The lion is not a Human. You keep up trying to attribute the same nature to two different existences and you try to judge the first through the latter. This is false. But anyway neither the n ...[text shortened]... duct of intelligence nor a product of innocence, but craftiness mixed with lack of innocence😵

"The crafty people who they choose to become criminals are not intelligent at all. Intelligence never confronts innocence. Criminality is neither a product of intelligence nor a product of innocence, but craftiness mixed with lack of innocence😵"

Exactly what stops an intelligent person from being a criminal? To me
it is simply the path they choose to walk; it wasn't that there was not
other things they could have done, but they picked, they thought out
all their options and came up with crime as their means to an end.

A compassionate person, one full of grace and mercy would take care
of the innocent, which does not require them to be overly bright, only
caring.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]"The crafty people who they choose to become criminals are not intelligent at all. Intelligence never confronts innocence. Criminality is neither a product of intelligence nor a product of innocence, but craftiness mixed with lack of innocence😵"

Exactly what stops an intelligent person from being a criminal? To me
it is simply the path they choo ...[text shortened]... care
of the innocent, which does not require them to be overly bright, only
caring.
Kelly[/b]

Right, an intelligent person is not becoming a criminal solely thanks to his own free will. Amongst many decisions he picks the one that his intelligence forces him to pick.

Intelligence is not a string of layers of knowledge -this is just memory. The brightness I am talking about, it derives not solely from a high IQ; it derives from a balanced compilation of IQ and EQ.