End–times, one-world religion?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe the "Anti-Christ" is more than likely alive today...

Originally posted by divegeester
Why do you believe this?

A lot of people believe this.

I'm one of them.

The timeline is quickening. Every day I see events in the news which foreshadow end time prophecy.

I've said before that these times are coming within a hundred years. And that I wouldn't be surprised to see them within fifty years. Many of us right here in this forum may still be alive when it hits the fan, and so this almost necessitates that the AntiChrist already be alive on this planet.

Originally posted by Suzianne
A lot of people believe this.

I'm one of them.

The timeline is quickening. Every day I see events in the news which foreshadow end time prophecy.

I've said before that these times are coming within a hundred years. And that I wouldn't be surprised to see them within fifty years. Many of us right here in this forum may still be alive when it hits the fan, and so this almost necessitates that the AntiChrist already be alive on this planet.

Do you share the view with Kelly, and whodey it seems, that the 'Mark of the Beast' will be the 'chipping' of humans by various governments?

Originally posted by divegeester
I find it facinating that many American Christians think that their country is the seat of Satan's earthy power, some like whodey even going on to extrapolate that Obama is the Devil himself. This entanglement of extreme religious self-fixation and political partisan perspectives makes quite amusing viewing.

I agree to some extent, but few among Christians think the subject is very funny at all.

Originally posted by Suzianne
If you want to take issue with his opinions, go right ahead, but do not stoop to personal attacks just 'cause "you got nothin' else".

What "personal attacks"? I am simply taking issue with his opinions and asking whether the 'end is nigh' thinking is caused by his religion or whether his 'end is nigh' political disposition found voice in the religious beliefs he espouses.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
If they are that obvious it shouldn't take you too long to spell them out for us. Fire away.

You wrote this in response to my post replying to KN and talking about a 'falling away' or apostasy.

Atheists see this as well as those of faith. You tout it all the time as 'proof' that the public is growing away from the church and towards "a more reasoned, reasonable approach to life", or atheism. Church attendance is down, and surveys asking about people's faith or religion report more people choosing "no religion" or "I am not religious". Maybe this is just in America, I don't know. There are many shows on the History channel anymore (maybe less so now since it's Easter time, most shows on now are about Jesus) asking if biblical events actually happened and/or is there another explanation for them than just 'God' (maybe 'aliens'? ) It used to be that religion was more keenly held by the elderly in this country and yet, even though the numbers of elderly are increasing, church numbers are not. America is becoming more secular all the time. One foray into TV commercials on during the 'overnight' time slots (especially on the weekends) show an abundance of crass commercialism and ads to retain attorney services, mostly speaking to the non-religious young people with the disposable income. Yes, atheists realize that the tide is turning towards them and away from religion. It has been for some time.

Further problems foreshadowing the end result of this apostasy: Terrorism is spreading worldwide, with little to no respect for human life. Some people don't think twice about knifing or shooting someone on the street with a minimum excuse of 'self-defense' to cover their fear. People are increasingly seeking out ways to take more and more people with them when they commit suicide. Political leaders are not looking to the future, they can barely see to their own wealth-building and are not committed to the long-term for their constituents. The 'middle-class' is barely in the middle anymore, they are slipping closer into poverty than ever before. People used to talk about the 1% looking out only after themselves, but today it's becoming more like the top 0.1% who are amassing everything to them, and screw the 'little people', let them eat cake. Governments are preparing for some coming disasters, but 'mum's the word', they're not telling us what's coming. And the world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket (global warming, widespread drought, crop failures, chemicals in our food), and yet Christians understand that yes, it's going to have to get real bad before everyone on earth bends to one individual who can show that he has the solutions to these problems (one-world government).

Originally posted by Suzianne

Further problems foreshadowing the end result of this apostasy: Terrorism is spreading worldwide, with little to no respect for human life. Some people don't think twice about knifing or shooting someone on the street with a minimum excuse of 'self-defense' to cover their fear. People are increasingly seeking out ways to take more and more people with them when they commit suicide. Political leaders are not looking to the future, they can barely see to their own wealth-building and are not committed to the long-term for their constituents. The 'middle-class' is barely in the middle anymore, they are slipping closer into poverty than ever before. People used to talk about the 1% looking out only after themselves, but today it's becoming more like the top 0.1% who are amassing everything to them, and screw the 'little people', let them eat cake. Governments are preparing for some coming disasters, but 'mum's the word', they're not telling us what's coming. And the world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket (global warming, widespread drought, crop failures, chemicals in our food), and yet Christians understand that yes, it's going to have to get real bad before everyone on earth bends to one individual who can show that he has the solutions to these problems (one-world government).

What about all the evidence that life is getting better for most people in the world ~ according to a whole range of key indicators ~ and is indeed better than it's ever been for many? Do you discount this evidence because it runs counter to your stated religious convictions/prediction that "that these [end] times are coming within a hundred years... and that I wouldn't be surprised to see them within fifty years"?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You think only 'right winged' people will oppose governments 'chipping' the population?

Are you kidding? Those will be the most ardent supporters of such a program, since they are already in thrall to Corporations. And not to mention, dreams of higher stock dividends dance in their heads, which they imagine they'll see as soon as they can get the 'peasant class' under control.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Church attendance is down, and surveys asking about people's faith or religion report more people choosing "no religion" or "I am not religious". Maybe this is just in America, I don't know.

If this [and other stuff you are mentioning] is in fact "just in America" ~ as you appear to concede ~ does it then not rather undermine your interpretation and extrapolation of the Bible verses to the entire world and to the coming decades?

Originally posted by Suzianne
The 'middle-class' is barely in the middle anymore, they are slipping closer into poverty than ever before.

Which countries is this happening in? There are many countries ~ really big ones ~ where their middle classes are expanding quickly and taking an increasingly big share of their nations' wealth. Doesn't this evidence run counter to your stated predictions? "The 'middle-class' is barely in the middle anymore, they are slipping closer into poverty than ever before" just sounds like a disgruntled American talking about America. Surely Revelation isn't only about what disgruntled Americans think?

Originally posted by FMF
What about all the evidence that life is getting better for most people in the world ~ according to a whole range of key indicators ~ and is indeed better than it's ever been for many? Do you discount this evidence because it runs counter to your stated religious convictions/prediction that "that these [end] times are coming within a hundred years... and that I wouldn't be surprised to see them within fifty years"?

Of course, in some ways, QoL in the third-world is getting better because poorer nations are getting dragged into the 21st century along with everyone else. As technology gets cheaper, even the poorest live better as a result. But I'm not sure if you can see the degradation of QoL that the middle class is seeing in America these days. Even in the third world, environmental concerns are leading the list of concerns for the future, so even though poorer nations can now get running water, that water's quality is poor compared to first world nations. Many in rural China, for example, are experiencing a better life that cheap electricity can bring, but they still pay in the low water quality and availability of that water from the dams that are constructed to bring them that electricity.

I also think atheists have an interest in defending the "world as they see it", since that's basically all they have. Your "evidence" is sparse and contradictory at best. Look at your own arguments. I suspect you're ready to fight tooth and nail over this, as this is a tenet central to atheism.

(And, just as a hint, conversations with you would be far easier if you'd stop with your "questioning" techniques and just have a normal conversation. You have an opinion? Then let's hear it, but don't couch it behind some lame question that assumes much and misses the point more often than not, just to prove your point without "appearing" to have an indefensible position. But then you couldn't shield your opinions behind the "innocence" of asking questions, could you? Your technique may seem to work well for you, since no one seems to call you out on it, but it's become tiresome in the extreme.)

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Will every person in the world be chipped, or will this be carried out by selective governments?

Do not know, I imagine as many as they can get since God makes a great
deal about it in the book of Revelation.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I'm not sure if you can see the degradation of QoL that the middle class is seeing in America these days.

Why do you think one has to see what you say is happening to the middle class in America, specifically, in order to understand Revelation?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You think only 'right winged' people will oppose governments 'chipping' the population?

For all I know this mark could come from what we would call 'right winged'
people. Being right or left is meaningless before God he loves all, so being
a lefty does not mean you are automatically against God or being a righty
either.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I also think atheists have an interest in defending the "world as they see it", since that's basically all they have.

But couldn't exactly the same be said about 'doomsday is nigh' American Christians like yourself and KellyJay and galveston75?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Of course, in some ways, QoL in the third-world is getting better because poorer nations are getting dragged into the 21st century along with everyone else. As technology gets cheaper, even the poorest live better as a result.

So is this evidence proving your interpretation of Revelation true or does it in fact run counter to what you predict?