04 Sep 12
Originally posted by divegeesterAgain with the outlandish slandering of my personal character. This seems to be your fallback method of response to posts you disagree with. But I forgive you your sins, egregious as they are.
Your comparison of your 1 year of sweaty communinist camp in the hills of outback Michgan during your angry youth, with Paul's 'Road to Damascas' experience, is a lesson in top trolling for RJHinds to consider next he's about to pinch us off another loaf of his fecal wisdom.
And it wasn't in Michigan. It was in Missouri. Not that it matters. It can get sweaty in the Ozark region of southern Missouri, though, I'll grant you that.
04 Sep 12
Originally posted by divegeesterIf the thread seems thin, it's because your stubborn pride won't let its spirit fill your heart. Be humbled and confess that your are a sinner on the side of Mammon and that you need that saving grace that communitarianism can provide. When you accept that your are your brother's keeper, then the thread will seem as full of wisdom as...well, as full of wisdom as the last big thread I posted in.
You've been away too long rwingett!
Actually it was a back-handed compliment of your ability to spin yarn with the thinest of thread; so to speak.
Pax Vobiscum, Divegeester.
04 Sep 12
Originally posted by rwingettThere is an ancient capitalist saying used when someone is talking a big talk but not really putting up much personal collateral, such as you in this latest bout of cave-dwelling evangelism. It goes something like...
If the thread seems thin, it's because your stubborn pride won't let its spirit fill your heart. Be humbled and confess that your are a sinner on the side of Mammon and that you need that saving grace that communitarianism can provide. When you accept that your are your brother's keeper, then the thread will seem as full of wisdom as...well, as full of wisdom as the last big thread I posted in.
Pax Vobiscum, Divegeester.
pecunia sermonibus et cacas ambulationes taurus, rwingett
04 Sep 12
Originally posted by divegeesterAn act as simple as volunteering to pick carrots at your local community farm may seem insignificant, but multiplied a million times over it becomes a revolutionary act that can bring even a goliath like Monsanto to its knees.
There is an ancient capitalist saying used when someone is talking a big talk but not really putting up much personal collateral, such as you in this latest bout of cave-dwelling evangelism. It goes something like...
pecunia sermonibus et cacas ambulationes taurus, rwingett
05 Sep 12
11 edits
Originally posted by rwingettSorry to foil your artificial constraints, but Hutterite communities interact with the big, bad world now. Somehow they manage to remain untainted. Maybe it's Hutterite magic. Every time a community gets a little too large, a portion of it will calve off and purchase land from us heathens to start a new community on. That's merely one example of their interaction. There are many others.
Sorry to foil your artificial constraints, but Hutterite communities interact with the big, bad world now. Somehow they manage to remain untainted. Maybe it's Hutterite magic. Every time a community gets a little too large, a portion of it will calve off and purchase land from us heathens to start a new community on. That's merely one example of their inter
http://www.solarairship.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=57
I agree, they do interact with the big bad world at the moment, and that, considering the end game, is my concern. See, if practically everyone is a hutterite and they're all doing their hutterite things in their little hutterite communities, then for all intents and purposes they won't have any non-hutterite (in particular capitalist) people to trade with or buy new lands from and so on... because everyone's a hutterite. As such the small scale model of utopia you present with ~42000 hutterites happily co-existing with evil capitalists is wildly distinct from the system you propose the world should strive for in the future. (Unless of course you would have some sort of H.G. Wells type world full of elois (hutterites) and morlocks (non-hutterites) - many elois got a raw deal out of that one if I remember correctly)
As for it not being a stable system...do you really think what we have going now is stable? In the age of global casino capitalism, nothing is stable. And it's getting more unstable all the time. Whether you like it or not, enormous changes are on the horizon. We can try to make them voluntarily, or they will simply be forced upon us by circumstances. Each system will have its own particular set of problems. It's simply beyond my ability to micromanage a planet and tell you how every variable is going to work. But I think that reasonably bright people like yourself should be able to come up with some suitable solutions.
I don't think what we have going right now is stable - Indeed I'm inclined to thinking that a few more steps towards socialism (or communism) are steps in the right direction
though I\'d have to see a realistic proposal put on the table \- well equipped with information about how things will be crap before I\'m fully sold
- but I think the number of steps you suggest is too far. Moreover, as regards finding a happy solution to the many multivariate problem this system would present, it would be better to investigate the existence of such a solution by looking at it on a smaller scale first.
But here's my solution to the transport problem: solar powered airships piloted by neo-Hutterite aeronauts. Check out that link below. Sixty tons of cargo, all on solar power. Of course they'd be built at the collectively owned and managed Hutterite airship factory. Eventually.
http://www.solarairship.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=57
It's impressive - I'll give you that. However unless I'm mistaken, I believe one of the main problems with technological advancement in a communist society is human ego and greed. Why should (most) bright people want to work many times harder on problems vastly more difficult than tending the land if they get no greater share of the spoils? Even if they do this for their own amusement/intellectual appeasement or whatever... what compels them to share their ground-breaking achievements with other communities than their own (or even their own community)?
05 Sep 12
2 edits
Originally posted by AgergIf practically everyone was a Hutterite, doing Hutterite things, in their Hutterite communities, then it is to be presumed that practically everthing (such as land) would already be collectively owned by said Hutterites. I find it most improbable that practically everyone would be a Hutterite without it being thus. Who else would these things still be owned by? Capitalists, who have no way to extract a profit from their investment? Hardly. The Hutterite numbers and material resources would necessarily advance in tandem. And once you've passed a certain critical mass, the majority of society would necessarily follow suit in a massive paradigm shift.
Sorry to foil your artificial constraints, but Hutterite communities interact with the big, bad world now. Somehow they manage to remain untainted. Maybe it's Hutterite magic. Every time a community gets a little too large, a portion of it will calve off and purchase land from us heathens to start a new community on. That's merely one example of their inter - that didn't work out very well for the elois if I remember correctly!
As for there being too many steps between the fallen land of Mammon and the neo-Hutterite Kingdom, that is only true if you propose to leap them all in a single bound. I began to address this very point in an earlier post (on page 7). You may respond to it if you wish, but suffice it to say for now that the steps may be scaled incrementally. Indeed, such an approach may be indeed be preferable.
Your last point, however, about the motivation of inventors is, I'm afraid, way off the mark. As I mentioned to the honorable Divegeester earlier, I've done some volunteer work "tending the land." I can tell you from personal experience that there is very little that is harder than that. Three hours and I was done for. I am nearly 50, though, so maybe I should confine myself to cushy jobs like tinkering with technological advancement.
05 Sep 12
Originally posted by divegeesterThe collectivist always knows what is best for the guy down the street, but then opts out for being treated the same.
There is an ancient capitalist saying used when someone is talking a big talk but not really putting up much personal collateral, such as you in this latest bout of cave-dwelling evangelism. It goes something like...
pecunia sermonibus et cacas ambulationes taurus, rwingett
05 Sep 12
Originally posted by mikelomNo. The Hutterites are merely an example of a group of people who have gotten tantalizingly close to enlightenment. The paradox is that their particular theology, which has been instrumental in bringing them that close, will prevent them from going any further.
Does Hutteritism bring enlightenment, to go back to the OP topic?
-m.
06 Sep 12
Originally posted by rwingettSatan is behind the works of Monsanto, you know, just like Halliburton (but even more so).
An act as simple as volunteering to pick carrots at your local community farm may seem insignificant, but multiplied a million times over it becomes a revolutionary act that can bring even a goliath like Monsanto to its knees.
Genetically-modified food is evil. And don't even get me started on what they're doing to the seed bank.
06 Sep 12
Originally posted by SuzianneI hear ya, sister. It's too bad that the other doubting Thomases on this forum don't have your intuitive grasp of the situation. Reclaiming control of our food supply from the corporate devils will be among the most important things we can do.
Satan is behind the works of Monsanto, you know, just like Halliburton (but even more so).
Genetically-modified food is evil. And don't even get me started on what they're doing to the seed bank.