Ephesians 2:8-9

Originally posted by chaney3
Let's be clear. Do you think it is possible for a human to be sin free? Jesus told this woman to 'go and sin no more". Is it possible for a human to not sin??

Not on your own, with God all things are possible.

Originally posted by chaney3
You are guessing, or......robbie, you just don't know. This is an important question. Is it possible for humans to NOT sin? Why would Jesus tell this woman to 'Go, and sin NO more?'

My interpretation is that he was saying "Go, and don't do that again. learn from your mistake." (He was speaking specifically about the sin of adultery, not telling her to lead a sinless life, which of course is impossible for a human being).

But don't listen to me, i'm just an atheist.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
My interpretation is that he was saying "Go, and don't do that again. learn from your mistake." (He was speaking specifically about the sin of adultery, not telling her to lead a sinless life, which of course is impossible for a human being).

But don't listen to me, i'm just an atheist.

You know more than most and take an objective, practical pov.

I agree with you here.

Originally posted by chaney3
Let's be clear. Do you think it is possible for a human to be sin free? Jesus told this woman to 'go and sin no more". Is it possible for a human to not sin??

In John 8:31-36, Jesus explains that His true disciples will no longer commit sin. Those who continue to commit sin will not "remain in the house forever". Those who no longer commit sin will "remain in the house forever".

John 8
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”

34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

In Ezekiel 18, God explains that those who continue to commit sin "will die". Those who no longer commit sin "will live".

21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23“Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

24“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

25“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?

30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you. 31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel? 32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live.”

Both Jesus and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
In John 8:31-36, Jesus explains that His true disciples will no longer commit sin. Those who continue to commit sin will not "remain in the house forever". Those who no longer commit sin will "remain in the house forever".

[quote]John 8
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciple ...[text shortened]... God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required

'He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.'

(Romans 4:25)

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.'

(Romans 4:25)

Why don't you explain exactly what point or points you're trying to make?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Why don't you explain exactly what point or points you're trying to make?

Apologies, was my intention to do so, but was posting from an internet cafe and my time was nearly up. 🙂

My point was that if man was meant to live a sinless life, why was it necessary for Jesus to die for the sins of humanity and bring us redemption?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

In Ezekiel 18, God explains that those who continue to commit sin "will die". Those who no longer commit sin "will live".
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The Apostle Paul says much the same thing to Christians for whom the question of eternal redemption has already been solved in the positive.

For example:

To the Roman Christians -

"For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (Rom. 8:6)

In their practical daily living if they do not set their mind on the regenerated spirit where the Spirit of Christ is (v.16), they will experience a death. That is a negative cessation of practical peaceful fellowship with God.

Once again he warns "brothers" who have already been born into the divine family.

"So then, BROTHERS, we are debtors not to the flesh to live according to the flesh; For if you live according to the flesh you must die, but if you by the Spirit put to death the practices of the body, you will live." (Rom. 8:12,13)

Christian "brothers" may taste death which would be abnormal for them. But if they utilize the Holy Spirit to put to death the sinful practices of the fallen body, they will live.

This is very much a New Testament exhortation which corresponds to your Ezekiel warning.

The difference between life and death here for Christians is not a difference in losing eternal salvation or retaining it. It is a matter of being one who overcomes rather than one who is defeated in the spiritual walk.

To the Galatian Christians a similar stern warning is given. They must sow to the Spirit and not to the flesh, otherwise they will reap corruption.

"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

For he [in context the Galatian Christians - eternally redeemed] who sows unto his own flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but he who sows unto the Spirit will of the Spirit reap eternal life." (Gal. 6:7,8)

The overcoming Christian sowing to the Spirit enjoys eternal life in a practical way in daily life.

The defeated Christian who though redeemed forever, continues to sow to his flesh, living the same old life, will have no enjoyment of this life.

Such a defeat in learning to enjoy the eternal life is temporary. It cannot last beyond the millennial kingdom. God has His way to give more incentive for child of His to cooperate.


Both Jesus and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required
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Christ IS God incarnate. And the Triune God expects man on his own power not to be able to do anything. In Christ, by grace, He knows that the indwelling life power can work in man for the fulfillment of His eternal purpose.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain, but, on the contrary. I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I but the grace of God which is with me." (1 Cor. 15:10)

The empowering comes from the grace of God that is with him.
His phrase "not I but the grace of God" is another way of saying " not I but Christ, who lives in me ".

" ... it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me ... " (See Gal. 2:20)

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Apologies, was my intention to do so, but was posting from an internet cafe and my time was nearly up. 🙂

My point was that if man was meant to live a sinless life, why was it necessary for Jesus to die for the sins of humanity and bring us redemption?

That question doesn't seem to fit the context of the discussion.

Chaney3 asked the question, "Is it possible for a human to not sin?"

I showed where both Jesus and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required.

You've gone off on a bit of a tangent.

Be that as it may, perhaps you should ask yourself if what Paul taught should trump Jesus and God. Should it? Why?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
That question doesn't seem to fit the context of the discussion.

Chaney3 asked the question, "Is it possible for a human to not sin?"

I showed where both Jesus and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required.

You've gone off on a bit of a tangent.

Be that as it may, perhaps you should ask yourself if what Paul taught should trump Jesus and God. Should it? Why?

Indeed, and i answered Chaney's question. I do not believe it is possible for human beings to live a life free of sin. When Jesus asked the person who was without sin to cast the first stone, he knew that nobody would be able to claim a sinless existence.

Tangents make life interesting. Do you not believe Jesus died for the sins of mankind?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Indeed, and i answered Chaney's question. I do not believe it is possible for human beings to live a life free of sin. When Jesus asked the person who was without sin to cast the first stone, he knew that nobody would be able to claim a sinless existence.

Tangents make life interesting. Do you not believe Jesus died for the sins of mankind?

Indeed, and i answered Chaney's question. I do not believe it is possible for human beings to live a life free of sin. When Jesus asked the person who was without sin to cast the first stone, he knew that nobody would be able to claim a sinless existence.

You seem a bit confused.

This is what Chaney3 said: "Jesus told this woman to 'go and sin no more'. Is it possible for a human to not sin??"

So the question is really whether or not it is possible for humans to stop committing sin.. In John 3 and Ezekiel 18 respectively, Jesus and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required.

This is consistent with Jesus telling the woman to "go and sin no more" and is not inconsistent with Jesus " ask[ing] the person who was without sin to cast the first stone",

Once again: Should what Paul taught trump Jesus and God? Why?

Do you not believe Jesus died for the sins of mankind?

If you want to discuss this, then start a thread on it, though you really need to be explicit about what you mean by "Jesus died for the sins of mankind". I could take an educated guess, but it'd be better if you explicitly state it.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Indeed, and i answered Chaney's question. I do not believe it is possible for human beings to live a life free of sin. When Jesus asked the person who was without sin to cast the first stone, he knew that nobody would be able to claim a sinless existence.

You seem a bit confused.

This is what Chaney3 said: "Jesus told this woman to 'go and si ...[text shortened]... sins of mankind". I could take an educated guess, but it'd be better if you explicitly state it.[/b]

There is NO confusion, his text is clear and scripturally correct.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
There is NO confusion, his text is clear and scripturally correct.

C'mon RC. That statement was referring to his apparent confusion as to the question Chaney3 was asking.

I don't see the point of arguing over Jesus telling the adulterous women to go and sin no more.

The best interpretation I think is that He was telling her SPECIFICALLY not to commit adultery anymore.

Does that mean He was saying, "Do no more of THAT sin, but do OTHER sins." ? Of course not. But " from now on sin no more" probably referred to the specific sin of adultery which had landed her in such trouble.

I would add that the life changing words of Jesus should not be underestimated. The encounter with Jesus Christ was so powerful in her life, I think she was enabled to obey.

Does it mean that He expected her to be SINLESS altogether after that afternoon ? Why should we believe that? When He went to the cross to die for our sins after the incident, He doesn't saying He is exempting from the need of redemption ANYONE whom He has taught along the way.

The woman, just like any other person taught by Jesus, needed the new covenant redeeming blood for the forgiveness of sins.

" For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:28)

The woman caught in adultery and told to go and sin no more also was part of the "many" who need redemption - the forgiveness of sins.

And she would also need the Holy Spirit given by the resurrected Jesus to all who believed in Him, as well. There is no reason to suspect Jesus expected that woman to make it on her own to please God apart from His death and resurrection and life impartation.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
That question doesn't seem to fit the context of the discussion.

Chaney3 asked the question, "Is it possible for a human to not sin?"

I showed where both Jesus and God expect man to be not only capable of no longer committing sin, but state that it's required.

You've gone off on a bit of a tangent.

Be that as it may, perhaps you should ask yourself if what Paul taught should trump Jesus and God. Should it? Why?

When Jesus quoted this, man was still under the Law. The Law was meant to bring man to his knees and ask for mercy. Man is not capable of not sinning.
When Jesus said man's righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisee, he knew it was impossible.
This is understood as a future event. After Jesus was crucified and raised, the new birth became available. We now have the righteousness of God.

Rom 3:22-26
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
NKJV

Now even though Christians still sin, in their "spirit they cannot sin". I think this is what Jesus was referring to.

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
NKJV

As we are transformed by the renewing of the mind, we tend to sin less and less. This will be culminated at the appearing of Jesus when we will be totally changed.