Ephesians 2:8-9

Originally posted by Rajk999
I guess there are some things after all, that God cannot do.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Salvation is a free gift.

How could God take a gift back when your name was written in the lambs book of life before you were even created?

And how can someone not written in that book get their name written in it after the foundation of the world?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm not trying to be tricky, I'm asking you a direct question so you can give a direct answer!
I'm asking why that is the means by which you look at things and have it make clear to you
this means that. I'm giving you the chance to prove your point. If that is conniving I simply
think if you had some strong case to make you'd make it. Instead of asking m ...[text shortened]... ven without scripture telling me I fail to see why my
eating them is anything less than normal.

Every language contains “figures of speech”; that is, methods of speaking that are not literally true, but which are used to convey a point.

One figure of speech that is used in Hebrew is called “prolepsis”. With that idiom, events that will occur are spoken of as if they had already occurred. In other words, future events are referred to as if they were past events.

Ephesians 2:4-6 (ESV):

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

The above passage is an even more dramatic example of prolepsis type 2. As shown, that passage tells us that God has “made us alive with Christ”, and “raised us up with him”, and “seated us with him”. Of course, the followers of Christ have not been raised from the dead yet – that event is still in the future.

In other words, even at the time when the author wrote that passage, the event in question still had not yet occurred. However, since God has promised that the event will occur, the event is referred to in the past tense – as if it had already occurred. This is a prime example of the idiom of prolepsis.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV):

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him [the beast], whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The above passage states that Jesus (the Lamb) was slain “from the foundation of the world”. So, was Jesus literally slain, all the way back at the foundation of the world? No, of course not – Jesus was not actually slain, until about 2,000 years ago. So, this passage is definitely not literal – instead, it is an example of prolepsis. In other words, the sacrifice of Jesus was part of God’s plan of salvation – and God initiated that plan all the way back at the creation of the world.

So, since the sacrifice of Jesus was part of God’s plan – and since God is true to His word – the sacrifice of Jesus is spoken of, as if it had occurred all the way back at the foundation of the world. As a result, this passage is certainly not a literal statement, but rather a figurative one.

(Also note: some English translations render Revelation 13:8 as “everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain”. In other words, those translations refer to the “names being written in the book of life” as the event that occurred from before the foundation of the world. Of course, that event did not literally occur before the foundation of the world, either – so even with those translations, prolepsis is still being used.)

1 Peter 1:20 (ESV):

He [Jesus] was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

The above passage is extremely similar to the other two passages in this section. Basically, the above passage tells us that God “foreknew” Jesus, even before the foundation of the world – but that Jesus was made “made manifest” in the “last times”. In other words, God knew that He would create Jesus, even before the world existed – but He did not actually create Jesus, until about 2,000 years ago. That is, Jesus “existed” in God’s plan before the foundation of the world; but Jesus did not personally exist until God caused Mary to conceive.

http://lhim.org/blog/2013/11/24/the-idiom-of-prolepsis/

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.'

Yes, interesting. I would still though interpret 'perfection' as being the 'target,' as opposed to 'divine expectation.' - I think by this point He would have known that human beings were incapable of leading perfect lives, free of sin.

Originally posted by Dasa
You fail to see because you are a rascal, and your sense gratification comes first.

You know full well that animals are suffering in the slaughtering process.

You say it doesn't matter because ! "oh look the tiger is killing the goat" So I can kill a goat and eat it.

You are suppose to have superior intelligence to make higher choices.

Why don't ...[text shortened]... low in the footsteps of Saint Francis and be kind and gentle and peaceful and Godly and Saintly.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(Matthew 25:34 KJV)

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
(John 14:2-3 NASB)

Obviously, Jesus is going away to prepare the kingdom for His people, because it is only a plan in the mind of God before the foundation of the world. So this shows that from the foundation of the world is a figure of speech. 😏

Originally posted by KellyJay
The thing you miss is that the Lord God King of the universe, the God of scripture has
given all animals to us so we can eat them. The diet rules have changed over time
through scripture, but at this time with thanksgiving we are free to eat anything. Your
views on this I'd respect in front of you I'd not eat anything to rub that in your face, but
my fr ...[text shortened]... eat is given to me by God, and I'm not bound to the god or gods you
have pledged yourself too.

Originally posted by Kell, Jay
The thing you miss is that the Lord God King of the universe, the God of scripture has
given all animals to us so we can eat them. The diet rules have changed over time
through scripture, but at this time with thanksgiving we are free to eat anything. Your
views on this I'd respect in front of you I'd not eat anything to rub that in your face, but
my f ...[text shortened]... eat is given to me by God, and I'm not bound to the god or gods you
have pledged yourself too.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Not surprisingly the antics continue. And not surprisingly your response once again does not address the facts.

Also not surprisingly you continue to 'play the victim' which is part of your MO.

The fact remains that I've documented your childish, underhanded and troll-like behavior and you haven't been able to refute any of it.

Your posts bring ...[text shortened]... u are. Though if your attempts continue to be this oafish, I might need to reconsider that part.

Originally posted by RJHinds
We are only expected to try to be perfect by not sinning [b]WILLFULLY.

HalleluYaH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy![/b]

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Sir, you’re trolling me. Kindly desist.

Why do you find it necessary to make things personal? I rather enjoy a battle of wits, but instead of wit you bring only vitriol. There are perhaps two main qualifiers for a ‘troll’ which you may want to reflect upon, before throwing around such an accusation:

1. A troll will often have no interest in the ...[text shortened]... the forums. (You get how ridiculous that sounds right?)

I genuinely am embarrassed for you.

Originally posted by chaney3
Ghost, you answered the question from me. It is impossible for a human to be perfect, and to commit no sin. Your suggestion that when a person commits himself/herself to Christ, that they will do the 'best they can'.

I am not certain why ThinkOfOne has such a problem with you, but.....your opinion is justified by me.....if that matters. You have answered my question.

I have opened a new thread about this issue.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Thanks. I appreciate that.

Originally posted by Dasa
Your statement that God has given us all the animal's so we can eat them, is completely absurd and ridiculous and lacks all responsibility for the choices you make.

Oh! .............I am cruel to animals because my God says I can.......Wow, this is the religion for me.

Why have you embraced one of the worlds greatest animal killing religions, instead of ...[text shortened]... the peace makers and Do unto others as you would have done to you. etc.

Become an honest man.