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This thread will have from me at least an emphasis on the verses in the New Testament which show eternal life more like something attained at the end of some process.
In other words, there are verses that show "eternal life " as a gift. But there are also many verses which show eternal life as something as a goal at the end of a living.
Many of these I think will come surprisingly from the book on basic Christian doctrine - Paul's letter to the Romans.
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1.)
"To those who by endurance in good works seek glory and honor and incorruptibility, life eternal." (Romans 2:7)
Paul's thought here seems to be that at the end of a life of endurance in good works one arrives at ... "life eternal". Seeking glory, seeking honor, seeking incorruptibility one arrives at an outcome - " life eternal".
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2.)
In order that just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 5:21)
This passage also has the flavor of "eternal life" being something arrived at after a process ... "UNTO ... eternal life".
Something seems to be moving towards a goal, a destination. The movement is "UNTO eternal life". Ie with a view towards eternal life at the end.
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3.)
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end, eternal life." (Rom. 6:22)
It is true that the very next verse says "the gift of eternal life" -
Verse 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
But verse 22 says "the end, eternal life". That is as if at the END of a certain kind of process (sanctification) the destination finally reached is "the end, eternal life".
Where is the eternal life in this verse? It is at the END.
17 Sep 19
@sonship saidEternal life comes to those who do not follow your dead faith. It is for the righteous and for those who follow the commandments of Christ.
1.)"To those who by endurance in good works seek glory and honor and incorruptibility, life eternal." (Romans 2:7)
Paul's thought here seems to be that at the end of a life of endurance in good works one arrives at ... "life eternal". Seeking glory, seeking honor, seeking incorruptibility one arrives at an outcome - " life eternal".
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4.)
For we are a fragrance of Christ to God in those who are being saved and in those who are perishing.
To some a savor out of death unto death, and to the other a savor of life unto life ..." (See 2 Cor. 2:15,16)
This one is a little involved. I just focus on the part "a savor of life UNTO life". I think this means eternal life is had and possessed YET there is also eternal life at the end ... "UNTO life".
The believers "smell" a fragrance in the apostles of the divine life they already have. Yet that savor, that fragrance is 'UNTO life" as life eternal at the END of a process.
"Life unto life" implies Life eternal is had now yet we are on a journey with a view towards "eternal life" at the end of it.
That is all I want to say about this right now.
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It might provoke more interest on a Christian website or on a blog where people come to read your stuff because they think you are a good theologian.
Possibly. But like Wesley who taught in the streets rather than in the sanctuary, I am willing to take the talking to places like here.
Of course some people will dismiss talking about the Gospel with an excuse that "Oh, you're just a theologian" or "Oh, you're just a preacher."
And sometimes that can be invigorating to consider some corrections here and there. And some people who might not go to a Christian theological blog but come here just might get something.
If some people take their Bible off the shelf and dust it off and open it with the thought, " Let me see what is in here anyway " I'm a winner.
17 Sep 19
1 edit
@sonship saidI think, if you fancy yourself as a theologian and you want to have a ministry, you should go for it.
Of course some people will dismiss talking about the Gospel with an excuse that "Oh, you're just a theologian" or "Oh, you're just a preacher."
The people who engage you here, though ~ a tiny number, when you think about it ~ almost exclusively are people that upset you and who bring out a nasty, vain side of you.
This place is populated by [1] Christians who for the most part ignore you, and [2] a small number of people whose dissent and disagreement you seem to have no respect for, and who - in return - find you to be an unimpressive person. If these people didn't engage you in conversation, you'd just be pumping out monologues with little or no response.
For all the effort you put in, you probably deserve better ~ but you are who you are. If you want to be a preacher with a ministry, I think you should go for it, but there must be online venues where you could reach more people.
Then you could use this place to engage in genuine conversations where you shared stories rooted in walking the Christian walk with people with diverse beliefs including non-Christians, rather than treating your faith as a set of arid doctrines that need to be recited to others as if they were preparation for a chartered accountancy exam.
17 Sep 19
@sonship saidYou could surely be reaching more. However, we know that you THINK you are reaching maybe hundreds of people here with your 'teaching'. As you once said [and then repeated at least once], you believe that hundreds of people on this website may face eternal torment in burning flames because they have been exposed to the stuff that I post.
If some people take their Bible off the shelf and dust it off and open it with the thought, " Let me see what is in here anyway " I'm a winner.
That makes you, how you see yourself, how you see other people here, what you think your mission is - not to mention your ideology - all seem utterly tragic. Sorry to be so blunt.
There are places on the internet where you could conceivably reach hundreds and hundreds of people. As for here, I doubt you have 'saved' a single soul - even on your own terms - in over a decade of trying. If you had, you'd think they might have posted to say so and thank you.
You might as well be sitting alone on the top of a 40 ft pole and serving the God you worship in that way. You could declare yourself "a winner" if you did that, too.
Just my penny's worth.
17 Sep 19
@sonship saidThe promise or possibility of everlasting life is pretty ubiqitous in the religions man has established and codified down through history and across cultures. This ubiquity, I think, gives us information about the human condition rather than information about any plans for humans that a creator being might have or about the supernatural more generally.
In other words, there are verses that show "eternal life " as a gift. But there are also many verses which show eternal life as something as a goal at the end of a living.
17 Sep 19
@rajk999 saidIt is commonly said that we cannot actually overcome our evil desires without the grace of God coming to us.
Eternal life comes to those who do not follow your dead faith. It is for the righteous and for those who follow the commandments of Christ.
How can someone attain the grace of God to overcome the passions of the mind without praying to God, as we are instructed to do by Christ Himself?
17 Sep 19
@fmf saidI'm quite interested because it directly counters one of the questions that @divegeester brings up, and thst you have mirrored, of "what is the purpose of punishing someone forever?"
It might provoke more interest on a Christian website or on a blog where people come to read your stuff because they think you are a good theologian.
I also think so sonships writing is good.
17 Sep 19
@fmf saidI'd like to point out that these two posts FMF just made are some of the longest writings you'll see from here over the whole course of a year.
You could surely be reaching more. However, we know that you THINK you are reaching maybe hundreds of people here with your 'teaching'. As you once said [and then repeated at least once], you believe that hundreds of people on this website may face eternal torment in burning flames because they have been exposed to the stuff that I post.
That makes you, how you see yourself, ...[text shortened]... p in that way. You could declare yourself "a winner" if you did that, too.
Just my penny's worth.
And what are they?
Attempts to discourage and mock the efforts of a long time Christian poster.
Not actual debate content.
Your efforts here are largely to be a drain, while Sonship is a fountain.