Spirituality
03 Jun 05
05 Jun 05
Originally posted by OmnislashHmmm maybe something like that ...
Perhaps the inherantly contradictive nature of an entity whos purpose is to answer questions about something they can not know everything about, subsequently pressuring it to find answers it can not possibly know?
Room for doubt etc etc
I'm going to rec you, it is *something* like that which puzzles me about this
05 Jun 05
Originally posted by Omnislash
Perhaps the inherantly contradictive nature of an entity whos purpose is to answer questions about something they can not know everything about, subsequently pressuring it to find answers it can not possibly know?
Maybe you should open a thread on the issue of "Praying" ?
05 Jun 05
2 edits
Originally posted by KneverKnightIn the Russian Orthodox Church there exists a "Litany of Fervent Supplication".
Sometimes its the same question ...
Just a matter of phrasing.
EDIT I'm not sure what strikes me as odd about this yet, just a hunch.
The Gretchaninov (=composer) musical version is very beautiful.
Maybe this will get you an idea where you think "something is wrong".
Litany of Fervent Supplication (Russian Orthodox Church)
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Priest:
Let us say with all our soul and with all our mind, let us say:
People:
Lord, have mercy. (once)
Priest:
O Lord Almighty, the God of our Fathers, we beseech Thee, hear us and have mercy.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (once)
Priest:
Have mercy upon us, O God, according to Thy great goodness, we beseech Thee, hear us and have mercy.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
Priest:
Furthermore we pray for this country, its ruler, (title and name of the ruler), its people, civil authorities and armed forces.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
Priest:
Furthermore we pray for our Most Reverend Bishop (name of the diocesan bishop, or, if he be an archbishop or metropolitan, mention his rank and name), and for all the Orthodox bishops.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
Priest:
Furthermore we pray for our brethren: priests, deacons, monks and all other clergy, and for all our brethren in Christ.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
Priest:
Furthermore we pray for the blessed ever-memorable and most holy Orthodox patriarchs, for devout kings and rightbelieving queens, for the blessed founders of this holy church and for all our Orthodox fathers, brethren, and sisters departed from this life before us, and who rest in peace here and everywhere.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
Priest:
Furthermore we pray for mercy, life, peace, health, salvation, visitation, forgiveness and remission of the sins of the servants of God: benefactors, trustees, members and supporters of this holy church.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
(Here special petitions for the recovery of the sick, or any special needs for individual parishoners are offered.)
Priest:
Furthermore we pray for those who bring offerings and do good works in this holy and all-venerable church; for those who labor in its service, for the singers and for the people here present, who await from Thee great and abundant mercy.
People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
Priest (in a low voice):
O Lord our God, accept this fervent supplication from Thy servants, and have mercy upon us according to the multitude of Thy mercies; and send forth Thy compassion upon us and upon all Thy people, who await the rich mercy that cometh from Thee.
Priest:
For Thou art a merciful God and lovest mankind, and unto Thee we ascribe glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages.
07 Jun 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerIs it coherent to speak of an ageless self? Don't assume it is too quickly.
Neither and both, I suppose. 🙂
In the Christian tradition, you will live as basically a perfect form of your living self. My guess would be that it would be an ageless form, one free of physical and psychological infirmities.
I mean, if I died, and was resurrected as I used to be, say at age of seven, it could be argued that I would no longer be fully myself, because a lot of who I subsequently became would have been negated.
Also, if I contracted Alzheimer's disease, and that negation process began naturally, then if I died, and was resurrected as I was just before I died, it could be argued that no self is being resurrected.
So, it would see that some form of me in my prime, would be the thing that would have to be resurrected, or something similar.
However, I am worried on this score. Have I any assurance that this resurrected person would in fact be me? Or would it be some new person who resembled me closely, but who was not actually me? Continuity of life would be disrupted in the resurrection process, reinforcing my worries.
07 Jun 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeFirst we need to differentiate between the mental self and the physical self.
Is it coherent to speak of an ageless self? Don't assume it is too quickly.
I mean, if I died, and was resurrected as I used to be, say at age of seven, it could be argued that I would no longer be fully myself, because a lot of who I subsequently became would have been negated.
Also, if I contracted Alzheimer's disease, and that negation proces ...[text shortened]... y me? Continuity of life would be disrupted in the resurrection process, reinforcing my worries.
I think the mental self would be one complete with all memories (including those we've forgotten) but none of the psychoses/neuroses/worries that plague it.
The physical self (body) would be ageless. How precisely, I cannot say.
Both of these are intelligible concepts, though we may not yet be able to completely understand them.
07 Jun 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerSounds nice.
First we need to differentiate between the mental self and the physical self.
I think the mental self would be one complete with all memories (including those we've forgotten) but none of the psychoses/neuroses/worries that plague it.
The physical self (body) would be ageless. How precisely, I cannot say.
Both of these are intelligible concepts, though we may not yet be able to completely understand them.
So, it's neither a younger me, or a current me, but a sort of cumulative me, with perfect memory, and bereft of mental ailments?
What facts, would you say, would make such an ideal me me?