Eternal punishment

Originally posted by Ullr
Let me be perfectly clear with you Jaywill. I have no intention of reading the Bible any more than I already have in my lifetime. Your god is not my god. I'm way past feeling threatened or concerned about the eternal damnation or salvation laid out in Christian mythology.

My sarcasm on this list is reserved for those who spread fear and ignorance in such a "matter of fact" style as KellyJay.

So for you it isn't about the topic, it is just to insult people you do not
agree with?
Kelly

Originally posted by joe beyser
Do you think God wants us to worship him because of fear? Kristy Lane sang a tune and part of it went "youve got the power to save me and it makes me love you so much". Is that true love or what. In other words I love you for what I can get from you. Is worship the same?

God is about reality and love pure and simple while we are not, the
reality of God means quite a few things. We will fall upon that reality
one way or another as we do with all forces of nature/universe we are
currently in, they are what they are. You play with fire you get burned,
you swim to deep you can drown, you insult some ruler in some of
the more authoritive countries you will suffer for it. Keeping things in
proper perspective helps us walk through this life, and having God in
the proper place means our actions towards everyone He loves should
be proper too. We should honor and love where it is due, and God
due to all He has done deserves our love and respect.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
God is about reality and love pure and simple while we are not, the
reality of God means quite a few things. We will fall upon that reality
one way or another as we do with all forces of nature/universe we are
currently in, they are what they are. You play with fire you get burned,
you swim to deep you can drown, you insult some ruler in some of
the mo ...[text shortened]... and love where it is due, and God
due to all He has done deserves our love and respect.
Kelly

yes Kelly J but there is a huge gulf between love and respect and a morbid fear, is there not, and i think that Joe was simply seeking to establish whether some may be motivated by the latter.

Originally posted by KellyJay
So for you it isn't about the topic, it is just to insult people you do not
agree with?
Kelly

Oh come on Kelly grow a pair will ya!

I didn't insult you I simply used sarcasm to point out your arrogance.

Maybe you will learn a lesson and not post on threads like this as if you speak for god.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its hard to say my friend, for i have never believed it myself, even before i was a Christian, but i do know that it terrorises some people, but would you not agree that fear is a very poor motivational force.

I can't say for sure on that either. I reject the burning forever teaching also but I hope others can shed light on how much fear of hell is a motivational force.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes Kelly J but there is a huge gulf between love and respect and a morbid fear, is there not, and i think that Joe was simply seeking to establish whether some may be motivated by the latter.

Exactly. It is something I do not quite understand but very interested in hearing different viewpoints on.

Originally posted by KellyJay
We should honor and love where it is due, and God
due to all He has done deserves our love and respect.
Kelly

Here again you are making the assumption that everybody either is or should be a follower of your religion and thus everyone should give their love and respect to your god. My question for you is this: Is there no room in your mind for the possiblity that there are other valid religions or spirituality that are different from Christianity or is it simply black and white? In other words, in your mind, must all humans bow down to your god or suffer eternal damnation?

Originally posted by joe beyser
I can't say for sure on that either. I reject the burning forever teaching also but I hope others can shed light on how much fear of hell is a motivational force.

=================================
I can't say for sure on that either. I reject the burning forever teaching also but I hope others can shed light on how much fear of hell is a motivational force.
====================================

There are plenty of people who turned to Jesus Christ for other reasons beside hell fire. In many cases is because they were already experiencing hell on earth in some situation.

The enfluence of the prospect of eternal suffering is probably overblown by people opposed to the Gospel anyway. The prospect of yet unknown misfortune in the future does not easily persuade people to change their lives today.

The warning of going to prison still doesn not keep millions out of jail. The immediate is more real to them than the warning about the future.

But the Person who you can most blame for the teaching is none other than Jesus Christ. From the same mouth which spoke such mercy, love, longsuffering, peace, forgiveness, and grace, .... from that SAME MOUTH came the warning about eternal damnation.

For the most part then you have to blame JESUS for the teaching about eternal damnation. Remember that.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=================================
I can't say for sure on that either. I reject the burning forever teaching also but I hope others can shed light on how much fear of hell is a motivational force.
====================================

There are plenty of people who turned to Jesus Christ for other reasons beside hell fire. In many cases i ...[text shortened]... most part then you have to blame JESUS for the teaching about eternal damnation. Remember that.[/b]

I think most people have moved past the fear part as the cornerstone has been laid and the rest of the structure is being built. When I first heard of hell fire I was about 5 years old. My step brother started taking me to sunday school with him. At that age hell fire is a scary thing. It could have easily kept me on the path to whatever teachings that particular church was putting out. We moved and I didn't go back to a church until highschool. This makes me wonder if a person really believed in hell fire early on, would that be a contributing factor in choosing to worship or not. The criminal will do things with the idea that he won't get caught. That isn't the same as hell fire as it is taught god knows everything we do. A burn is one of the most painfull things we can experience. Couple our experience of a small burn with the idea that hell fire would completely engulf us with the added twist of it never ending, and to me it seems like religeous control by man. Does anyone see this as odd?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes Kelly J but there is a huge gulf between love and respect and a morbid fear, is there not, and i think that Joe was simply seeking to establish whether some may be motivated by the latter.

I'm sure some are motivated by fear, which is healthy in some
measure, you must respect something that is dangerous or pay a
price if you handle it wrong. Being motivated by love however does
away with all fear which is the real goal.
Kelly

Originally posted by Ullr
Oh come on Kelly grow a pair will ya!

I didn't insult you I simply used sarcasm to point out your arrogance.

Maybe you will learn a lesson and not post on threads like this as if you speak for god.

No, you didn't insult me, you just used sarcasm to point out my arrogance.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm sure some are motivated by fear, which is healthy in some
measure, Kelly

I would think any normal human being is motivated by fear in some way. The problem is, as it pertains to this discussion, is that fear is often used as a tool to control and manipulate other human beings as is quite clearly the case with some religions such as Christianity and Islam.

Originally posted by Ullr
Here again you are making the assumption that everybody either is or should be a follower of your religion and thus everyone should give their love and respect to your god. My question for you is this: Is there no room in your mind for the possiblity that there are other valid religions or spirituality that are different from Christianity or is it simply blac ...[text shortened]... In other words, in your mind, must all humans bow down to your god or suffer eternal damnation?

I'm stating my beliefs, my faith as it is, you state yours; however,
when I do it, it is some how wrong? I have given safety walk throughs
in places I work where I have to warn off people of the various dangers
they will be working around, and I'm hoping they get a level of fear
about those so they don't do something stupid and get themselves
or someone else hurt or killed. It is no different with God, I believe
all of humanity is in danger of Hell, for all have sinned and have
fallen short of the glory of God...so believing that all of mankind is
in danger I should keep my mouth shut in your opinion, I think not.
Kelly

Originally posted by Ullr
Here again you are making the assumption that everybody either is or should be a follower of your religion and thus everyone should give their love and respect to your god. My question for you is this: Is there no room in your mind for the possiblity that there are other valid religions or spirituality that are different from Christianity or is it simply blac ...[text shortened]... In other words, in your mind, must all humans bow down to your god or suffer eternal damnation?

You can believe what you will about God and punishment, you can
deny it, have a different set of beliefs, it is totally on your head what
you will and will not trust. All of us will find ourselves playing out what
happens to us at the end of the day by trusting in that which we have
picked to trust. Reality will not bend because of our faith, truth will
remain as our opinions are put to the test of time.
Kelly

Originally posted by Ullr
I would think any normal human being is motivated by fear in some way. The problem is, as it pertains to this discussion, is that fear is often used as a tool to control and manipulate other human beings as is quite clearly the case with some religions such as Christianity and Islam.

Okay
KJ