Eternal suffering? Or eternal death?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are impressed by the teachings of men... clearly.

Well then. I would ask for your opinion, but then I'd have to be unimpressed by it.

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:

Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"

Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."

I am not arguing for eternal torment. I le ...[text shortened]... they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.

I do favor annihilation, yet I believe eternal torment is going to be the reality.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I do favor annihilation, yet I believe eternal torment is going to be the reality.

From a loving God?

Doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by chaney3
From a loving God?

Doesn't make sense.

From a Holy and Just God, the mercy and grace given shows His love to those that receive it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
From a Holy and Just God, the mercy and grace given shows His love to those that receive it.

What possible earthly 'sins' would warrant torment in hell for eternity?

Originally posted by divegeester
Tom, welcome to the forum. If you are a new member (and not someone returning under other name, which happens) then you find it quite exciting** in here at times. Seriously, welcome.

By "argument" I meant a reasonably concise exegesis of those and the other scriptures which went some way to overcoming the obvious moral and even logical incoherence of ...[text shortened]... ".

In the meantime, I'll probably just side with you on the annihilation POV.

**combative

LOL

Thanks. I was a paying member here years ago. I'm so old I don't even remember what my username was. But... I'm easing myself back into this and trying to learn how to get around again. I used to post in the forums a little bit. I guess I got enamored with fb groups where you can post pics, videos, etc. so I lost interest in the stripped down forums like this. BUT... I've decided to get back into chess and these forums are part and parcel to the experience. Thanks for the welcome!

Originally posted by chaney3
What possible earthly 'sins' would warrant torment in hell for eternity?

You didn't read the whole thread?

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:

Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"

Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."

I am not arguing for eternal torment. I le ...[text shortened]... they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.

The 'eternal torment' position may be the establishment consensus position because that is what establishments do - have and hand down consensus positions that often become sacred cows, not to be questioned. It has reached a point where even to question the position is said to warrant and bring about - wait for it - eternal torment.

Making it a sort of self-refuting denial.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I do favor annihilation, yet I believe eternal torment is going to be the reality.

Yes, because Jesus is so awful as a person.

Originally posted by JS357
It has reached a point where even to question the position is said to warrant and bring about - wait for it - eternal torment.

Making it a sort of self-refuting denial.

RJHinds, knowing I was a Christian, told me a deserved to burn in hell for not believing in eternal hell. It was, for me at least, one of those 'wtf' moments here at rhp.

Originally posted by chaney3
From a loving God?

Doesn't make sense.

I will bump up my answer to this.

Originally posted by JS357
The 'eternal torment' position may be the establishment consensus position because that is what establishments do - have and hand down consensus positions that often become sacred cows, not to be questioned. It has reached a point where even to question the position is said to warrant and bring about - wait for it - eternal torment.

Making it a sort of self-refuting denial.

Indeed, many who hold fast to the doctrine of ET are hostile to anyone who suggests otherwise. 😕

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't see eventual annihilation as something to fear, you are here than you are not. Most
think of death that way now anyway. The scary thing which I believe to be true is that God
when He shows His grace and mercy will do it forever, and when He shows His wrath it
will also be forever. So with His grace there will be no wrath mixed in to punish us, an ...[text shortened]... lessen it.

The point still is, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God.

Chaney3 here you go.

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
Indeed, many who hold fast to the doctrine of ET are hostile to anyone who suggests otherwise. 😕

Really?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't see eventual annihilation as something to fear, you are here than you are not. Most
think of death that way now anyway. The scary thing which I believe to be true is that God
when He shows His grace and mercy will do it forever, and when He shows His wrath it
will also be forever. So with His grace there will be no wrath mixed in to punish us, an ...[text shortened]... lessen it.

The point still is, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God.

I disagree with this concept. If this appears in the Bible, then I disagree with the Bible.

Justice by God is fine, but eternal torment? No!

What 'sins' committed by humans could justify torment in hell....forever?