05 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeyAs far as I am aware, I am not assuming any of these things. I am simply confronting an ideology that I have often seen propagated here.
You are assuming a few things here.
1. Hell is not simply a natural state once rejecting God.
2. There are other alternatives to rejecting God that are not as bad.
3. The Soul can be destroyed, that is, what JW"s believe will happen.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by FMF[1] None. Not many are even paying attention. And by the same token neither does the promise of eternal life have much effect on behavior either. People just keep running away from God.
[1] What actual deterrent effect [and behaviour modification effect] do you think the threat of being tortured for eternity in burning agony has on people who don't think any such thing happens and do not subscribe to the belief system that includes this supposed punishment or fate?
[2] If the threat of being tortured for eternity in burning agony has no det ...[text shortened]... non-believers for eternity in burning agony rather than simply allowing their existence to end?
[2] Their existence does end in eternal separation from the life of God, which is the only life there is. Only God has eternal life to give.
Your terminology, "tortured for eternity in burning agony", is disingenuous and misleading, as well as inflammatory. Even if such a fate as being cast into a lake of fire is true, just how long would it take for a body to be incinerated? And, knowing that pain isn't experienced without a body, why be concerned?
The actual suffering would be, if the soul exists and doesn't die, much worse that physical pain. imo.
If the scriptures are true, and Jesus is who He said He is, then what Jesus said about those in outer darkness gnashing their proverbial teeth is something to be avoided at all costs.
One should be deterred from ignoring God by the threat of what comes after death. No one will be able to say they didn't know or weren't warned because the truth was told even by Jesus, who is the image of the invisible God.
Originally posted by josephwNo it is not. It is a fate or punishment that has been described by several Christians active on this forum. If it's not an ideology or notion of supposed "justice" that you subscribe to, then good for you.
Your terminology, "tortured for eternity in burning agony", is disingenuous and misleading, as well as inflammatory.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by whodeyThe Soul can be destroyed, that is, what JW"s believe will happen.
You are assuming a few things here.
1. Hell is not simply a natural state once rejecting God.
2. There are other alternatives to rejecting God that are not as bad.
3. The Soul can be destroyed, that is, what JW"s believe will happen.
I don't believe "hell" to be actual fire as we know it. To think that would be to believe that Satan and his demon followers were human like us instead of spiritual beings.
Ummm not its not, we profess that 'the soul', is the person not some aspect distinct from them.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe soul is the person just as you said, but can it be destroyed?
The Soul can be destroyed, that is, what JW"s believe will happen.
Ummm not its not, we profess that 'the soul', is the person not some aspect distinct from them.
The Greek word phtheirÅ occurs 8 times in the KJV New Testament. 4 times as "corrupt", once " corrupt one's self", once "be corrupt", once "defile" and once as "destroy".
I can find no supporting scripture that says the "soul" is destroyed.
I do find scripture that says folks are resurrected to be judged, then cast into the lake of fire. Perhaps that is where their soul exists separated from the life of God forever.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by josephwThere are lots of things CHrist said which you say you never heard of:
... I can find no supporting scripture that says the "soul" is destroyed...
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Read the teachings of Christ a bit more.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by FMFWho is conducting said torture?
[1] What actual deterrent effect [and behaviour modification effect] do you think the threat of being tortured for eternity in burning agony has on people who don't think any such thing happens and do not subscribe to the belief system that includes this supposed punishment or fate?
[2] If the threat of being tortured for eternity in burning agony has no det ...[text shortened]... non-believers for eternity in burning agony rather than simply allowing their existence to end?
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999So, if that verse is saying that the soul is destroyed in hell, what are all those that died doing standing before God being judged and then subsequently cast into the lake of fire if their souls were destroyed in hell?
There are lots of things CHrist said which you say you never heard of:
[b]Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Read the teachings of Christ a bit more.[/b]
I think the verse above has to do with the fear of God, and is not a proof text for the destruction of the soul.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Mark 9:43-48
And another:
"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
The degenerated soul reduced to a worm.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by josephwYou are correct. I guess Christ was mistaken, and apparently not the first time either.
So, if that verse is saying that the soul is destroyed in hell, what are all those that died doing standing before God being judged and then subsequently cast into the lake of fire if their souls were destroyed in hell?
I think the verse above has to do with the fear of God, and is not a proof text for the destruction of the soul.
05 Sep 14
2 edits
Originally posted by josephwYour amusing use of "inflammatory" does not distract from the interesting self denial that you are displaying. Can you explain how the mechanics of the "eternal" place "hell" will not involve "torture" and "burning agony"?
..."tortured for eternity in burning agony", is disingenuous and misleading, as well as inflammatory.
05 Sep 14
Originally posted by divegeesterDo you know the difference between the lake of fire and hell?
Your amusing use of "inflammatory" does not distract from the interesting self denial that you are displaying. Can you explain how the mechanics of the "eternal" place "hell" will not involve "torture" and "burning agony"?