"Eternal Torture" and deterrence

Originally posted by KellyJay
He did not die on the cross for Himself, but for us! Why in the world would
He or anyone want to die like that?
Kelly

Ah but it was for himself kellyJay ... to reiterate what I said in the post you responded to

He decided that the price to be paid for anyone acting against his wishes is death and torture. He then sent a variant of himself to be sacrificed to himself in order to pay for that debt. He would then use this as a stick to coerce people into praising him and telling him how wonderful he is for fear of being cast into the lake [of fire, and suffering for all eternity].

As for why in the world would he want anyone to die like that ... because by all Biblical accounts he is a bigotted, jealous, egotistical, crazy bast***, that has a penchant for genocide and torture.

Originally posted by Agerg
Ah but it was for himself kellyJay ... to reiterate what I said in the post you responded to

[i]He decided that the price to be paid for anyone acting against his wishes is death and torture. He then sent a variant of himself to be sacrificed to himself in order to pay for that debt. He would then use this as a stick to coerce people into praising him and t ...[text shortened]... s a bigotted, jealous, egotistical, crazy bast***, that has a penchant for genocide and torture.

God created a universe that should have been filled with LOVE towards
each other and God. Even the animals were to live that way, and there
was a break from this with pride and selfishness where not others do
people care about but their own way.

So God created the universe for a reason, and it will be done the way
He wants to be. Evil is playing itself out, we see now what is like when
people care more about their sexual drives than they do others, we see
what is like when people care more about their drugs than their own
families, we see when people care more about power can control than
others.

It was not setup for death and torture, death wasn't supposed to be
a part of creation, it came after sin. Punishment came when rebellion
broke out, it too wasn't part of the creation when it was put together.

So now we are seeing what happens when Satan has major sway in
creation, soon we will see what it is like when Jesus has his 1000 year
reign when Satan is locked up. After that Satan will be let go and we
will see the end of evil, forever.

I get you don't like how evil is going to be dealt with, but when we see
all that evil is and did, I can only imagine it will be justified to even you
will agree with it.
Kelly

Originally posted by whodey
As I've said, fearing God is just shunning evil.

Funny thing, if I steal, kill, take drugs, have promiscous sex, etc., bad things tend to happen you you in this world.

What makes people think the next life will be any different?

Only the words of the Bible, that's all.

There will be no more sin, or evil, or death.

Sounds way different to me already.

Originally posted by Agerg
The difference is, that in this world, bad things happen only for a finite amount of time. The proposition you fundies are putting forward is that an insanely cruel and unwarranted torture, instigated by your god, will persist for an infinite amount of time. You are painting the god you believe in as a total and complete dickhead - a being more hideous and depraved than any person who has ever lived.

I don't know what world you're living in, but I see bad things all over the world, and it never seems to get any better.

Finite amount of time? I guess, if you mean only for the time before Christ comes back to rule.

Originally posted by Agerg
No Whodey, let's get it right ... supposing for a moment that the Biblical events are true, he died on the cross for [b]himself. He decided that the price to be paid for anyone acting against his wishes is death and torture. He then sent a variant of himself to be sacrificed to himself in order to pay for that debt. He would then use this as a stick to coe ...[text shortened]... t.


Your last paragraph doesn't read very well - I cannot comment on it in the current form.[/b]

Man, have you got this messed up.

Christ died on the cross so we could be free.

Originally posted by KellyJay
God created a universe that should have been filled with LOVE towards
each other and God. Even the animals were to live that way, and there
was a break from this with pride and selfishness where not others do
people care about but their own way.

So God created the universe for a reason, and it will be done the way
He wants to be. Evil is playing its ...[text shortened]... evil is and did, I can only imagine it will be justified to even you
will agree with it.
Kelly

Well lets be specific, essentially your claim (in so many words) is that death only came about after two near-naked people ate a magic fruit and your god was displeased by it.

Who decides what should be the punishment for "sin" (a.k.a. doing something "God" doesn't like)

1) God's father?
2) Judge Judy?
3) The punishment-bot 9000?
4) Or how about ... hmm, I don't know ... God himself maybe!?

Yeah, 4 looks passable. God took it upon himself to decree that anyone doing anything that rubs him up the wrong way should be cruelly tortured. Now let's get this straight, he didn't

1) tell them they'd get a slap on the wrist for being such naughty boys and girls if they do it again
2) tell them they'd get reduced heaven privileges for a couple of weeks if they don't behave.
3) give them a good shouting at


no, he decided he'd burn them forever and ever and ever and ... ever and ever and ever!!! 😕 This is NOT a measured response to any transgression a human is capable of committing in their finite lifetimes.

As for Satan, next to your god he seems like a rather nice guy.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Man, have you got this messed up.

Christ died on the cross so we could be free.

No you have got this messed up ... Crucifying people doesn't free people who haven't been crucified, it merely tortures and kills those who have. Killing and torturing is generally regarded as a bad thing (you'll have to trust me on this one)

How many people would you thank for arranging their own sons to be killed for your benefit? 5? How about 3? maybe a 2!? or how about a big fat zero!?? 😕


Alice: Geez I've had a really bad day today
Bob: Ah shucks, sorry to hear about that Alice ... would it help if I tortured and killed my own son by leaving him to die nailed to a cross?
Alice: Really? You'd do that for me Bob!??
Bob: Sure I would ... I mean, what says "I've got your best interests at heart" better than crucifying your own son?
Alice: Aww thanks Bob... you're the best friend a girl could ever have!
Bob: lub you Alice
Alice: lub you too Bob *hugs*

Originally posted by Suzianne
I don't know what world you're living in, but I see bad things all over the world, and it never seems to get any better.

Finite amount of time? I guess, if you mean only for the time before Christ comes back to rule.

I don't know what world you are living in but in *this* world we only live for a finite amount of time, and can only do a finite amount of things - regardless of how bad they are.

Originally posted by FMF
Ask the Christians who propagate the "eternal torture" ideology.

No, you don't get off that easy.
You're the one who made the thread.
You're the one who needs to support it.

FMF: Ask the Christians who propagate the "eternal torture" ideology.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
No, you don't get off that easy.
You're the one who made the thread.
You're the one who needs to support it.

I do not subscribe to the ideology. I do not have to propagate or explain or "support" it.

Originally posted by Agerg
No you have got this messed up ... Crucifying people doesn't free people who haven't been crucified, it merely tortures and kills those who have. Killing and torturing is generally regarded as a bad thing (you'll have to trust me on this one)

How many people would you thank for arranging their own sons to be killed for your benefit? 5? How about 3? maybe a ...[text shortened]... end a girl could ever have![/i]
Bob: lub you Alice
Alice: lub you too Bob *hugs*

People????

We are talking about the high, holy God, here, not just "some person".

That's what you've got messed up.

Originally posted by Agerg
I don't know what world you are living in but in *this* world we only live for a finite amount of time, and can only do a finite amount of things - regardless of how bad they are.

That's why it's supremely important to get right with God. Now, while you still can.

Originally posted by Suzianne
People????

We are talking about the high, holy God, here, not just "some person".

That's what you've got messed up.

Well firstly it is claimed that this Jesus character walked the earth as a mortal human (imbued with the power to perform magic of course), and was killed and tortured in the same way as other mortal humans. As such, my usage of "people" is valid.

Secondly, why does it matter what his lineage was!??
The issue here is that you seem to find it somehow a good thing that another human be killed for the sake of others whilst I on the other hand with slightly more, ahem ... modern ... values do not.

Originally posted by Suzianne
That's why it's supremely important to get right with God. Now, while you still can.

Let's not get side-tracked here, my point about the finite existence was a response to a response about my earlier claim that your barbaric notion of god likes to kill people, and torture them for all eternity.

As far as I'm concerned, getting right with *your* god would be a huge step backwards in terms of personal development.

Originally posted by Agerg
Let's not get side-tracked here, my point about the finite existence was a response to a response about my earlier claim that your barbaric notion of god likes to kill people, and torture them for all eternity.

As far as I'm concerned, getting right with *your* god would be a huge step backwards in terms of personal development.

Just to be clear, God doesn't do that; but some Christians want to claim that he does.

Edit: why they want to claim that is still unclear.