Evidence for God?

Originally posted by Suzianne
I thought I was quite clear. Are you seeking God? No? Then my comments stand.

In order to start seeking god one must first either believe in god or be part of an environment that somehow encourages seeking god. For many, many people this is not the case and that isn't their fault.

You agree?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
In order to start seeking god one must first either believe in god or be part of an environment that somehow encourages seeking god. For many, many people this is not the case and that isn't their fault.

You agree?

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

(Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV)

The Instructor

Originally posted by Suzianne
But no, you won't be standing with them. Because they are believers also.

I'll be taking my own (thoughtful) road here and say that these believers are not wrong. We Christians are told to have the faith of the mustard seed. Many of us do. But so do many Muslims, and Jews. The Hindu or any of the other non-Abrahamic religious, I cannot speak for, ...[text shortened]... ir Heavenly Father. FAITH is what will set you free, and not what 'religion' you claim.

But what if, due to your upbringing and your location on Earth, you have no religion? Or what if your religion is one, like Buddhism, that does not include a god?

Is it then our fault that we do not 'seek' something for which we have no reason to believe? Why would we seek it? Do you go out looking for leprechauns? No? Why not? Could it be because you have no reason to believe they exist?

--- Penguin?

Originally posted by Penguin
But what if, due to your upbringing and your location on Earth, you have no religion? Or what if your religion is one, like Buddhism, that does not include a god?

Is it then our fault that we do not 'seek' something for which we have no reason to believe? Why would we seek it? Do you go out looking for leprechauns? No? Why not? Could it be because you have no reason to believe they exist?

--- Penguin?

Everyone has reasons to seek the truth regardless if their religion is Atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, or whatever. No one has an excuse.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Everyone has reasons to seek the truth regardless if their religion is Atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, or whatever. No one has an excuse.

The Instructor

But what if, due to your upbringing and your location on Earth, you have no religion? Or what if your religion is one, like Buddhism, that does not include a god?

Is it then our fault that we do not 'seek' something for which we have no reason to believe? Why would we seek it? Do you go out looking for leprechauns? No? Why not? Could it be because you have no reason to believe they exist?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
But what if, due to your upbringing and your location on Earth, you have no religion? Or what if your religion is one, like Buddhism, that does not include a god?

Is it then our fault that we do not 'seek' something for which we have no reason to believe? Why would we seek it? Do you go out looking for leprechauns? No? Why not? Could it be because you have no reason to believe they exist?

Yes. It is your fault. Everything that is wrong with the world today is man's fault. So don't try to play innocent or blame God. It's your fault.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes. It is your fault. Everything that is wrong with the world today is man's fault. So don't try to play innocent or blame God. It's your fault.

The Instructor

Which particular man or men? And how so?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Which particular man or men? And how so?

It all goes back to the first man. You can begin reading all about it in the Holy Bible.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

(Matthew 28:18-20 NKJV)

The Instructor[/b]

Do you understand that for people without religious beliefs, the quote you just gave is about as meaningful as a random quote from Stephen King's The Shining?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes. It is your fault. Everything that is wrong with the world today is man's fault. So don't try to play innocent or blame God. It's your fault.

The Instructor

You seem to be suggesting that we are blaming God for something. I certainly do not since I have yet to see any compelling evidence that any such entity exists. So for me to blame God for anything would be as sensible as blaming Lord Voldemort.

The whole point of this thread was to find out what sort of evidence for a supernatural deity people would accept. I have stated where I think my threshold is and I certainly haven't seen anything approaching it.

As to your assertion that everything wrong with the world is man's fault, there may possibly be a tiny kernel of truth there.

--- Penguin

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Do you understand that for people without religious beliefs, the quote you just gave is about as meaningful as a random quote from Stephen King's The Shining?

No. I know of no quotes from Stephen King's The Shining.

The Instructor

Originally posted by Penguin
You seem to be suggesting that we are blaming God for something. I certainly do not since I have yet to see any compelling evidence that any such entity exists. So for me to blame God for anything would be as sensible as blaming Lord Voldemort.

The whole point of this thread was to find out what sort of evidence for a supernatural deity people would acc ...[text shortened]... h the world is man's fault, there may possibly be a tiny kernel of truth there.

--- Penguin

I said, "don't try to play innocent OR blame God." You definitely play innocent, as if you have no knowledge of God and must have compelling evidence that God exists, when you have His creations as evidence.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I said, "don't try to play innocent OR blame God." You definitely play innocent, as if you have no knowledge of God and must have compelling evidence that God exists, when you have His creations as evidence.

The Instructor

Clearly his creations do not identify anything about him or Christianity would be the dominant religion in the world rather than just one among many.

There is nothing intrinsic in the universe that identifies your God as its creator, and in fact we have not discovered anything affirming that the universe had any kind of creator at all. This is why, if he exists, he really needs to come out of hiding and show himself, unambiguously. the only person to attempt to explain why he does not do this is Suzziane and her 'free will' argument simply does not stand up to scrutiny.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by Penguin
But what if, due to your upbringing and your location on Earth, you have no religion? Or what if your religion is one, like Buddhism, that does not include a god?

Is it then our fault that we do not 'seek' something for which we have no reason to believe? Why would we seek it? Do you go out looking for leprechauns? No? Why not? Could it be because you have no reason to believe they exist?

--- Penguin?

Scripture teaches that we do not seek God out on our own, we are called
by God, we choose to answer or reject. The reason is God, the place where
we find ourselves are our choices. With respect to not hearing or knowing
about God, God also calls us to work with Him to reach out to others trying
to give each of us every chance to come. We do live in a world where it is
written only a few of us are going to find God in away that is acceptable to
God, which is God's grace through Jesus Christ. Many roads may go towards
God, but there is only one that reaches Him, the Way, Jesus.
Kelly

Originally posted by Penguin
Clearly his creations do not identify anything about him or Christianity would be the dominant religion in the world rather than just one among many.

There is nothing intrinsic in the universe that identifies your God as its creator, and in fact we have not discovered anything affirming that the universe had any kind of creator at all. This is why, if he ...[text shortened]... is Suzziane and her 'free will' argument simply does not stand up to scrutiny.

--- Penguin.

I think He did come out of hiding in the past with His incarnation as the Son of God. He also left proof by leaving behind the Shroud of Turin that has withstood scientific investigation.

The Instructor