Spirituality
13 Aug 13
10 Sep 13
Originally posted by KellyJaySo God asks men (and presumably women) to persuade those who God himself failed to reach. Of course, that makes perfect sense!
Scripture teaches that we do not seek God out on our own, we are called
by God, we choose to answer or reject. The reason is God, the place where
we find ourselves are our choices. With respect to not hearing or knowing
about God, God also calls us to work with Him to reach out to others trying
to give each of us every chance to come. We do live in a wo ...[text shortened]... Many roads may go towards
God, but there is only one that reaches Him, the Way, Jesus.
Kelly
All he needs to do to reach us is show himself, unambiguously. I have suggested one mechanism that would do it for me, I am sure there are many others.
--- Penguin
Originally posted by PenguinSo you think God should respect your wants and show favoritism to you over the wants of others? What makes you more deserving of this favoritism than anyone else that God should bow to your wants? He left the Holy Bible and the Shroud of Turin as a testimony to all. But you want a special sign. How many more signs will God have to give to satisfy all men, if rising from the dead is not good enough?
So God asks men (and presumably women) to persuade those who God himself failed to reach. Of course, that makes perfect sense!
All he needs to do to reach us is show himself, unambiguously. I have suggested one mechanism that would do it for me, I am sure there are many others.
--- Penguin
The Instructor
10 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsI should rephrase that...
So you think God should respect your wants and show favoritism to you over the wants of others? What makes you more deserving of this favoritism than anyone else that God should bow to your wants? He left the Holy Bible and the Shroud of Turin as a testimony to all. But you want a special sign. How many more signs will God have to give to satisfy all men, if rising from the dead is not good enough?
The Instructor
[i]I have suggested one way that would do it for [b] most people who believe in the 'wrong' god or gods, or who don't believe in any god.[\b][\i]
I certainly don't think he should do anything just for me, but the vast majority of the human race do not believe in him and I think it is a little unfair of him to hide if there is as much at stake as you seem to think there is.
--- Penguin
10 Sep 13
Originally posted by PenguinI don't believe there is a problem with God hiding from us. Many people born into another faith have become Christians and many that are raised in the Christian faith don't practice it. I believe it is the person's attitude about life that makes the difference. Those that seek greater evidence for God must not be lazy or they may never find it. I see plenty of evidence for God that satisfies me.
I should rephrase that...
[i]I have suggested one way that would do it for [b] most people who believe in the 'wrong' god or gods, or who don't believe in any god.[\b][\i]
I certainly don't think he should do anything just for me, but the vast majority of the human race do not believe in him and I think it is a little unfair of him to hide if there is as much at stake as you seem to think there is.
--- Penguin
The Instructor
11 Sep 13
Originally posted by RJHindsPeople join and leave all religions, Christianity is not special in that regard. Some of those who have left Christianity were previously fervent believers much like yourself. Maybe they got lazy. If you search hard enough for evidence supporting something in which you already believe, whether that be Christianity, Islam or homeopathy, you will find it. What is much harder is to make yourself honestly look for evidence against something you believe in.
I don't believe there is a problem with God hiding from us. Many people born into another faith have become Christians and many that are raised in the Christian faith don't practice it. I believe it is the person's attitude about life that makes the difference. Those that seek greater evidence for God must not be lazy or they may never find it. I see plenty of evidence for God that satisfies me.
The Instructor
Here's another scenario that might convince a large proportion of non-Christians, including myself, to convert: if we came across a civilisation/tribe/village that had had no contact with the outside world and yet still believed in a god who had sent his only son to a distant land to redeem them of an ancient sin that had cursed them since the first two humans had disobeyed said god in an idyllic garden.
Unfortunately, proving that this tribe had not had prior contact with the outside world might prove difficult, given Christian missionary history. Maybe if we got into contact with an extra-terrestrial civilisation with this belief about events on a world other than theirs.
Essentially, I am looking for something that is not tied to a particular culture or to human cognitive weaknesses.
--- Penguin
11 Sep 13
Originally posted by PenguinKeep looking and let us know when you find it.
People join and leave all religions, Christianity is not special in that regard. Some of those who have left Christianity were previously fervent believers much like yourself. Maybe they got lazy. If you search hard enough for evidence supporting something in which you already believe, whether that be Christianity, Islam or homeopathy, you will find i ...[text shortened]... thing that is not tied to a particular culture or to human cognitive weaknesses.
--- Penguin
The Instructor
11 Sep 13
Originally posted by RJHindsIf I find it, the scientific community will be the first to know (I'd imagine it would make a good case for both the Nobel and Templeton prizes) but you guys will be next.
Keep looking and let us know when you find it.
The Instructor
--- Penguin
11 Sep 13
Suzianne, still interested in your answers on these two questions:
1. You appear to understand that people who were brought up in different cultures may therefore have different religions.
Do you agree that people who don't believe in god often do so because god was not a part of their upbringing?
Or perhaps a better way of saying this: do you agree that people who DO believe in god often do so because it WAS part of their upbringing (not always ofcourse)?
2. In order to start seeking god one must first either believe in god or be part of an environment that somehow encourages seeking god. For many, many people this is not the case and that isn't their fault.
You agree?
11 Sep 13
Originally posted by PenguinYes!
Here's another scenario that might convince a large proportion of non-Christians, ...a civilisation/tribe/village that had had no contact with the outside world and yet still believed in a god who had sent his only son ... to redeem them ...
The converse of that; the fact that no religion has spontaneously arisen in two geographical places, makes the idea of a "true religion" nonsense and the argument for any kind of caring-god ridiculous.
11 Sep 13
Originally posted by PenguinI pointed out that no one will have an excuse before God, we are bound to
So God asks men (and presumably women) to persuade those who God himself failed to reach. Of course, that makes perfect sense!
All he needs to do to reach us is show himself, unambiguously. I have suggested one mechanism that would do it for me, I am sure there are many others.
--- Penguin
each other, we are to care for one another. Helping another avoid a fate
worse than anything I can imagine is part of it. God works with us, that is
part of the process. What God judges as enough evidence will be on display
and since everything will be on full display with nothing hidden, we will all
know if God got it right or not, and if God is getting it right all the excuses
will fall away just that.
lines.
Kelly
11 Sep 13
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you, or do you not, agree that in some place, at some time there has
I pointed out that no one will have an excuse before God, we are bound to
each other, we are to care for one another. Helping another avoid a fate
worse than anything I can imagine is part of it. God works with us, that is
part of the process. What God judges as enough evidence will be on display
and since everything will be on full display with nothing ...[text shortened]... or not, and if God is getting it right all the excuses
will fall away just that.
lines.
Kelly
existed humans who through no fault of their own were never introduced to
the idea of a biblical god?
And if so how do you justify the assertion that it is their fault?
12 Sep 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59In this world we have to live with the results of our actions, some of our
Do you, or do you not, agree that in some place, at some time there has
existed humans who through no fault of their own were never introduced to
the idea of a biblical god?
And if so how do you justify the assertion that it is their fault?
actions put others at risk in small things and large. The no fault of their
own does not mean that they are not in a place at the fault of others.
Kelly
13 Sep 13
Originally posted by KellyJayOnce more in plain English please.
In this world we have to live with the results of our actions, some of our
actions put others at risk in small things and large. The no fault of their
own does not mean that they are not in a place at the fault of others.
Kelly
14 Sep 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59We live in a world where each of us has to deal with our actions and
Once more in plain English please.
those that have gone on before us. If there is an area where hearing
about God isn't permitted, it is because someone made it that way
those types of rules just don't occur.
Kelly