Evidence for God?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
how can you call him a just god when he offers these people who have never come across christianity 'little to no hope'. its not their fault, its his for not sending word to them. it sounds to me like you consider christians to be better than everybody else. that your existence is more meaningful.

Once the fall occurred, that was it, there wasn't nothing for it but
condemnation as it was for Satan and his that fell away. God gave man
away out since all were condemned with Adam, away for all to be saved
was made through Jesus Christ. We are part of the process as we share
with each other and help each other out, but Jesus Christ is still the Way,
and no one comes to God except through Him.

I said I don't know what happens to those that never heard, because I know
Jesus also dealt with those that came before His time on earth as a man. I
do believe God is just, so how He deals with each of us I believe will be
just, that does not mean that we will like the outcome.

I don't consider Christians any better than anyone else, as a matter of fact
the only way you can become a Christian is to admit your sins before God
asking for forgiveness. So it is NOT that people who come to God for
forgiveness are better, they are just those that go to God and admit their
sinfulness asking for forgiveness, we are sinners like everyone else.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Once the fall occurred, that was it, there wasn\'t nothing for it but
condemnation as it was for Satan and his that fell away. God gave man
away out since all were condemned with Adam, away for all to be saved
was made through Jesus Christ. We are part of the process as we share
with each other and help each other out, but Jesus Christ is still the Way, ...[text shortened]... d and admit their
sinfulness asking for forgiveness, we are sinners like everyone else.
Kelly

"but I hold little to no hope out for them I'm sorry to
say. "

"I said I don't know what happens to those that never heard, "

which is it?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]"but I hold little to no hope out for them I'm sorry to
say. "

"I said I don't know what happens to those that never heard, "

which is it?[/b]

Why do you think those are either or? I do not know, but I believe the
answer will not be a good one.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Why do you think those are either or? I do not know, but I believe the
answer will not be a good one.
Kelly

why do you think the answer will be bad for them?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
why do you think the answer will be bad for them?

Ezekiel 3:18
When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.

Ezekiel 3:20
“Again, when a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before them, they will die. Since you did not warn them, they will die for their sin. The righteous things that person did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.

Ezekiel 33:4
then if anyone hears the trumpet but does not heed the warning and the sword comes and takes their life, their blood will be on their own head.

It seems plain to me that warnings were given to us, and since that is true
the reason for those warnings must be in play. Which is to say that there
are those that didn't hear, but it will not be because they were some place
they could not be reached, it was just someone didn't open their mouth
and share.

Now, I do believe God is just, but how that plays out in a world where all of
us have the power to make our own choices and live with them isn't clear
to me. We do live in this life where people live and die due to things we do
and refuse to do, we have the power to act in love and kindness, or as
wicked as the day is long and the results will play out and once some deeds
are done there is no turning back. Why do people think if that is true it
would not also be true in spiritual realm with God as well?

If God has made a provision for them, I'm not aware of it, but that does not
mean it isn't there.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Ezekiel 3:18
When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.

Ezekiel 3:20
“Again, when a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evi ...[text shortened]... s made a provision for them, I\'m not aware of it, but that does not
mean it isn\'t there.
Kelly

"It seems plain to me that warnings were given to us, and since that is true
the reason for those warnings must be in play. Which is to say that there
are those that didn't hear, but it will not be because they were some place
they could not be reached, it was just someone didn't open their mouth
and share."


lets take the example of a tribe in the amazon rain forest in 10 a.d. could you explain who in that tribe is keeping quiet about the christian god? could you also explain how they could be reached by the word of god? could you also explain why the members of the tribe who are not told about god and jesus should be judged by the standards of god? and if god doesnt care if an amazon tribe hears his word why would he care if a middle eastern tribe does?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]\"It seems plain to me that warnings were given to us, and since that is true
the reason for those warnings must be in play. Which is to say that there
are those that didn\'t hear, but it will not be because they were some place
they could not be reached, it was just someone didn\'t open their mouth
and share.\"


lets take the example of a tr ...[text shortened]... doesnt care if an amazon tribe hears his word why would he care if a middle eastern tribe does?[/b]

Exactly how could I explain that?
I've told you already we are told that the path is narrow and only a few
find it. That to me suggest the majority are lost, if they die in their sins
they will have died in their sins. Its no different than being on a ship that
is sinking in icy water with more than enough life boats, as long as you
get on one your good, if you don't you don't, and it could be because you
were not in a place you could get to one, or no one warned you to go, the
water will kill you regardless.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Ezekiel 3:18
When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood.

Ezekiel 3:20
“Again, when a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evi ...[text shortened]... s made a provision for them, I\'m not aware of it, but that does not
mean it isn\'t there.
Kelly

Can you explain how people living on Hawaii, an exceedingly remote island range in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, who didn't get to hear 'His' word for 1800 years is a result of someone not 'opening their mouth and sharing' and not a result of them being 'some place they could not be reached'.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Can you explain how people living on Hawaii, an exceedingly remote island range in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, who didn't get to hear 'His' word for 1800 years is a result of someone not 'opening their mouth and sharing' and not a result of them being 'some place they could not be reached'.

It is still all about choices, someone put themselves on that island for
whatever reason. That excludes them from everyone else, all the good
and the bad that goes with it. If they miss out on something required it
would be no different than they were someone place they could hear about
it and no one spoke up, the end result has them not hearing.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
It is still all about choices, someone put themselves on that island for
whatever reason. That excludes them from everyone else, all the good
and the bad that goes with it. If they miss out on something required it
would be no different than they were someone place they could hear about
it and no one spoke up, the end result has them not hearing.
Kelly

People have no choice in where or when they are born, unless you know something different?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
People have no choice in where or when they are born, unless you know something different?

Correct; however, the people who moved there had a choice where they
were going to live and have their children.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Correct; however, the people who moved there had a choice where they
were going to live and have their children.
Kelly

Yes. So people moved to a particular place, in this case Hawaii, completely unaware of God's message of sin and salvation. Their ancestors lived for millennia on this island, again, completely unaware of God's message of sin and salvation until 1820 when the first Christian missionaries turned up. How is any body at fault in this as you are claiming?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Yes. So people moved to a particular place, in this case Hawaii, completely unaware of God's message of sin and salvation. Their ancestors lived for millennia on this island, again, completely unaware of God's message of sin and salvation until 1820 when the first Christian missionaries turned up. How is any body at fault in this as you are claiming?

My claims are people made choices, those choices are not what they will
be judged for, it will be for their sins. They are no different than any other
people no matter where they are. They will be standing before God for all
the things they did and didn't do, that is the bottom line.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
My claims are people made choices, those choices are not what they will
be judged for, it will be for their sins. They are no different than any other
people no matter where they are. They will be standing before God for all
the things they did and didn't do, that is the bottom line.
Kelly

but if they dont know its a sin how can they be judged by it. if it doenst matter if a person knows its a sin or not, then why bother telling some people what are sins and not others!!! would you teach one of your children how to cross a road and not bother with the other because they were not there when you taught the first child????

Originally posted by stellspalfie
but if they dont know its a sin how can they be judged by it. if it doenst matter if a person knows its a sin or not, then why bother telling some people what are sins and not others!!! would you teach one of your children how to cross a road and not bother with the other because they were not there when you taught the first child????

Paul deals with that dilemma at great length in Romans. God would not judge you for actions which you are not aware are sins. In fact the Amazon rain forest people will fall into this category described here:

For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands. The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not have the Law. Their conduct shows that what the Law commands is written in their hearts. Their consciences also show that this is true, since their thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them. (Romans 2:13-15 GNB)