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06 Apr 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I don't believe the ultimate goodness resides in God.
God does man a disservice if he dis-empowers him to autonomously recognise evil when he encounters it, using only the mortal tools of reason and empathy.
I don't believe the ultimate goodness resides in God. If it exists at all, it resides in human beings. It is this notion of the divine which clouds the reality in the mind of men.
Okay. That's what you don't believe.
What DO you believe is the reason why Dasa's speech is evil in calling for the things he is calling against all Moslems.
What is your positive explanation as to why it is REALLY evil ?
If it [goodness] exists at all, it resides in human beings. It is this notion of the divine which clouds the reality in the mind of men.
So then Dasa's speech is EVIL only because the opinion of the minds of men deem it so ?
Okay. But that is not too solid.
If Dasa is able to convince a good number of people, it will be in the minds of at least a sizable portion of men, that his policies should be enacted.
Do we have an ad populum situation here ?
God does man a disservice if he dis-empowers him to autonomously recognise evil when he encounters it, using only the mortal tools of reason and empathy.
I am looking for a positive reason given by Atheism as to WHY, in an absolute sense, Dasa's speech should be judged as EVIL.
But since you mentioned (and I did mention) Theism, I would briefly reply this.
God did tell man that he would gain a knowledge of good and evil.
And man did. But the ASSUMPTION was on man's part that JUST having the KNOWLEDGE would mean that he had the life power to resist the evil and perform the good.
He gained a knowledge of good and evil only.
He did not always have the life power to perform the good that he knew, nor resist the evil that he knew.
Yes, the conscience of Adam and Eve did awaken. But death came just the same.
The way I understand this in Genesis is that the awakened conscience of man only acted as a breaking system to prevent man from doing TOO much sin - on his downward road to his inevitable death.
We are glad that the conscience was awakened to be a kind of breaking system restricting the performance of unbridled evil. However, sin and death could not be resisted in the long run.
Man gained a knowledge. Man did not gain the life power to resist that evil fully or perform that good fully.
But tell me - if Dasa's speech is evil in an absolute sense because it somehow thwarts the ultimate purposes of Evolution, how do I harmonize that with what I have been told that Evolution HAS no purpose ?
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06 Apr 16
Originally posted by twhiteheadNo. You're going to bear some burden for a positive explanation as to how Evolution comes squarely into play in the ascertaining that Dasa is doing evil.
I said no such thing.
I would be happy to go into details in another thread on condition you also provide some sort of argument for why theism does any better.
And I am not going to constantly re-visit and re-visit again and again your posts to figure out what you did NOT say.
Because of EVOLUTION, then, Dasa's attitude is evil.
And here is how EVOLUTION makes it evil -
Enter twhitehead ....
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twhitehead:
I can tell you why you are evil:
1. You do not just want to remove the 'vile murdering scum'. You have repeatedly stated that you want to execute or incarcerate every Muslim on earth including my friends' five year old son.
And Evolution comes squarely into making this evil, twhitehead ?
Forget theism now.
The reason for these actions being EVIL ... has to do with Evolution.
How do I know that Dasa's policy is not a furtherance of the process of Evolutionary progress ?
2. You have defended rape as promoted in the Vedas.
You practice hate speech. If you lived in South Africa, what you have said in the past would be enough to get you jailed. You could almost certainly get in trouble in Australia too:
Is his speech really evil in an absolute sense, because it thwarts Evolution ?
This thread is a good place for your explanation because it is called "Evil Dasa".
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06 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonship[b] I don't believe the ultimate goodness resides in God. If it exists at all, it resides in human beings. It is this notion of the divine which clouds the reality in the mind of men.
Okay. That's what you don't believe.
What DO you believe is the reason why Dasa's speech is evil in calling for the things he is calling against ...[text shortened]... of Evolution, how do I harmonize that with what I have been told that Evolution HAS no purpose ?[/b]Can you please show me where i have described Dasa personally as being evil?
I have certainly used words like despicable, vile and hateful. Do you equate these with being evil?
06 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipAnd I am more than happy to do so. Start a thread on the topic. But be prepared to discuss both sides.
No. You're going to bear some burden for a positive explanation as to how Evolution comes squarely into play in the ascertaining that Dasa is doing evil.
And I am not going to constantly re-visit and re-visit again and again your posts to figure out what you did NOT say.
Fine. Just don't falsely claim I said things I didn't. If you can't be bothered to actually check then don't make any claims about what I said whatsoever.
Because of EVOLUTION, then, Dasa's attitude is evil.
And here is how EVOLUTION makes it evil -
Enter twhitehead ....
Start a thread and I will explain in full.
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07 Apr 16
Rank Outside,
You replies seem more to be taking advantage of being a Rank Insider among friends. You can only get away with these lame responses because you feel secure in the company of a few Atheists.
I would expect more than wisecracks which seem only to cause your buddy atheists to nod and smile.
Easy. We just did it. And we are right.
So far as I read down your cute comebacks I do not see how, in an absolute sense, you know Dasa's speech, behavior, attitude, etc. is EVIL.
A wink of confidence assuming some other Atheist here has your back doesn't impress me that much.
me:
I think the Atheist has to smuggle in moral absolutes from a theistic worldview in order to make a judgment about what Dasa ought not do.
you:
No. It's easy to spot that this is not true, because we didn't. As many of us think that god, as envisaged by some, is also evil, it would also be a pretty stupid thing to do.
Now you have TWO unsolved problems - Dasa is evil, and you think God is too.
In an absolute sense you have not explained to me WHY either should be true.
Other than some vague confidence that you are in the company of friends, I don't see an attempt to explain yet.
me:
Is his speech absolutely evil because you don't like it?
you:
No. And no-one said his speech was absolutely evil. Whatever he said, I could come up with worse with a few seconds thought. Like the idea of sending someone to hell to be tortured for all eternity. That is the nearest to absolute evil I can think of.
So Dasa's speech is not REALLY evil then ?
Or it is only kind of appears evil on some temporary basis not involving a true standard of goodness?
I don't think you can tell me. So you react by saying eternal damnation is evil, striking out at the Bible.
But an ultimate punishment is consistent with the committing of an ultimate badness.
Now I am suddenly pulled away and cannot write more at the moment.
I'll catch up on replies latter.
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07 Apr 16
Originally posted by Proper Knob
Is it just me or does anybody else have the foggiest idea what sonship is banging on about?
Is it just me or does anybody else have the foggiest idea what sonship is banging on about?
There have been a number of threads now in which posters have expressed their exasperation at Dasa. This is because of his very hardline hatred of all things Moslem.
I agree with some of these sentiments.
What I am "banging on about" is to the Atheists here who have joined the chorus of condemnation of Dasa's words as despicable, evil, etc. What is the ultimate moral standard of goodness by which they measure his attitude as evil?
And "Well, we don't like Theism anyway" is not a good answer.
And "Start a new thread and explain Christian morality" is neither the answer that I expect.
Someone submitted something about Evolution being involved. In the light of Evolution then how does the Atheist ascertain that Dasa's wanting all Moslems punished is objectively immoral ?
Still in the fog Knob ?
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Originally posted by twhitehead
Because of EVOLUTION, then, Dasa's attitude is evil.
And here is how EVOLUTION makes it evil -
Enter twhitehead ....
Start a thread and I will explain in full.
This thread is as good as any for your explanation.
How does Evolution render Dasa's attitude really objectively evil ?
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Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Can you please show me where i have described Dasa personally as being evil?
I have certainly used words like despicable, vile and hateful. Do you equate these with being evil?
Okay, with you, you judge Dasa's words as "despicable, vile and hateful."
An antonym of despicable is "good" according to "Despicable Synonyms" at :
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/despicable
What is the opposite of "good" ?
Right! Evil!
In fact the same site says a synonym of despicable is no-good .
Can't no-good be also described as evil ?
Is Dasa's speech evil then according to some objective standard of morality ?
Or is it evil just because you personally prefer another kind of speech ?
I mean do you prefer another form of speech as you prefer one flavor of yogurt to another flavor ?
Why is Dasa's speech objectively no-good other than to your fleeting subjective personal tastes for another kind of speech ?
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07 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipWhy is Dasa's speech objectively no-good ?Can you please show me where i have described Dasa personally as being evil?
I have certainly used words like despicable, vile and hateful. Do you equate these with being evil?
Okay, with you, you judge Dasa's words as "despicable, vile and hateful."
An antonym of [b]despicable is "good" according to "Despicable ...[text shortened]... r one flavor of yogurt to another flavor ?
Why is Dasa's speech objectively no-good ?[/b]
do you watch chrisitan v atheist debates on youtube?
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Originally posted by stellspalfieI don't know if you have expressed a view of Dasa's diatribes against Moslems.
[b]Why is Dasa's speech objectively no-good ?
do you watch chrisitan v atheist debates on youtube?[/b]
But I am asking some of the Atheists who joined in on a chorus of condemnation against Dasa to explain from their belief why Dasa's speech is objectively evil morally.
Yes, yes, yes, I watch some debates.
Its not terribly relevant to my question.
Are you going to help out the Forum Atheists to explain exactly what makes Dasa's speech about Moslems objectively evil ?
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07 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipWhy are you talking in absolutes? Why is 'no-good' evil?Can you please show me where i have described Dasa personally as being evil?
I have certainly used words like despicable, vile and hateful. Do you equate these with being evil?
Okay, with you, you judge Dasa's words as "despicable, vile and hateful."
An antonym of [b]despicable is "good" according to "Despicable ...[text shortened]... no-good[/b] other than to your fleeting subjective personal tastes for another kind of speech ?[/b]
My cousin is no good. He stole from his mum and sold his sister's rabbit. Does that make him evil?
Theists tend to talk in black and white, when reality is mostly shades of grey. Do i think Dasa as a person was evil? No. Did i find his justification for rape and genocide abhorrent, despicable, vile and hateful? Yes.
Why? Because I do.