Evil Dasa

Originally posted by FMF

How on earth would I be asking you to "carry out the last judgment"?

Exactly what God does to Stalin is known to God.
I am just acknowledging that a ultimate divine accounting cannot be avoided, either at Calvary or at the last judgment - the great white throne.

I do agree if in other words you are echoing God's warning "Vengence is Mine. I will repay." But the specifics I cannot say.

I think God has indicated in words which can be understood by all - eternity apart from Him is not something anyone will like.

What put such a bizarre deflection in your mind ~ and how do you think saying it addresses what I put to you about the "justice" that YOU choose to call "perfect"?

I'll think about it.
But I have no doubt that perfect righteousness flows out of God's nature.

If you say God is not perfect righteousness then I don't know how God as Creator could bestow upon his creature that which He had not in Himself to give. That makes no sense.

I think your position is that you don't want to think of Christ's teaching as from Christ. The words you don't care for were inserted fictitiously in the Gospels by others with bad motives.

He said all judgment was put into His hands. And that there will be a resurrection onto life and a resurrection unto damnation.

What kind of man He was and is, and what He endured behind the conviction that His own words were true, I cannot ignore. He died to save me.

If He didn't say those things then you have to explain why He went through the agony of what He did evidently for the purpose that I be saved.

" For this is the blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:28)

He knew that He was about to pour out His blood, the blood of a totally righteous man, an innocent man. Not only a good man but a sinless and glorious man. Yet He knows He is about to pour out His blood for the forgiveness of sins.

Why did He take His redemptive death so seriously if He did not warn of God's wrath upon man's sins? He said these things about final judgment and He acted accordingly that we would be saved.

This is a sober minded man with a mind gloriously clear in all moral judgments.
This is not the mind of a fool.
His words express the mind of a man who was gloriously clear about morality, with a clarity which had splendor and radiance shining down the centuries.

I think I should trust in Him.

I was asking you to explain what YOU mean by the "ultimate standard of moral measurement" when a mass murdering C20th monster receives the same "justice" (according to your ideology) as someone who lacked a belief in Jesus.

God's nature is THE righteousness against which we all are measured.

If some ultimate standard does not exist then justice does not exist ultimately. If justice does not ultimately exist then I question of injustice can be said to exist.

How God deals with Stalin as opposed to some lesser evil person, I don't know.
But I believe that God has told us all in terms which none can misunderstand, that in general, eternity apart from God no one will enjoy.

Is this hard to understand? God has communicated to people of the earth in a common denominator way that no one can misunderstand - unpleasantness meets all who are left eternally unreconciled to His good nature and His law.

My point was to take an unquestionably wicked person and ask you if you think the balancing of the moral scales will take place. Though I cannot tell you how, I believe a perfect balancing of the moral scales will take place.

I cannot tell you how specifically.

Look at the natural creation. Your hairs are numbered. If you are not aware of the thousands of things associated with each heart beat of your heart, I think God the Creator is aware. If we are not aware of every synapses in the brain at every thought of a million thoughts, I am sure God our Creator is aware.

Should I think such a God does not remember the deed which should go punished ?
Should I think God is less detailed about His examination of our life's deeds?

So I embrace His plan of salvation. And I am not ashamed of His warning of divine vengence. And I do not imagine Jesus didn't say so but others invented some words and lied, saying Jesus said so.

And how does your subscription to this complete absence of moral differentiation and proportionality you describe help you in any way to make your own moral evaluation of Dasa's ideas and proposals?

I do not see an absence of moral differentiation. I see that, though details are missing as to how God will judge each lost one, in a general sense to be NOT reconciled to God is to be avoided through Christ's redemption.

I would tell my children that Riker's Island is a prison to be avoided at any cost. But, there are probably different degrees of discomfort in Riker's Island Prison.

This lake of fire may hold for a Stalin something more than for a lesser rebel against God. But the whole affair is to be avoided through Christ's salvation. That's the tone of the word of God I get and teach others.

Originally posted by sonship
Exactly what God does to Stalin is known to God. I am just acknowledging that a ultimate divine accounting cannot be avoided, either at Calvary or at the last judgment - the great white throne. [...] I think God has indicated in words which can be understood by all - eternity apart from Him is not something anyone will like.

Do you imagine I will be spending eternity in burning agony alongside Joseph Stalin?

Originally posted by sonship
This lake of fire may hold for a Stalin something more than for a lesser rebel against God. But the whole affair is to be avoided through Christ's salvation. That's the tone of the word of God I get and teach others.[/b]

You sound either a little bit squeamish about your own ideology here, or you are seeking to make it to sound a little bit less ludicrous.

Originally posted by sonship
My point was to take an unquestionably wicked person and ask you if you think the balancing of the moral scales will take place. Though I cannot tell you how, I believe a perfect balancing of the moral scales will take place.

I cannot tell you how specifically.

Look at the natural creation. Your hairs are numbered. If you are not aware of the thousand ...[text shortened]... e avoided through Christ's salvation. That's the tone of the word of God I get and teach others.

This is starting to sound a bit like - Joseph Stalin was so terribly bad, there simply must be a God ready to punish him... how could there possibly NOT be some supernatural justice to deal with him?.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you imagine I will be spending eternity in burning agony alongside Joseph Stalin?

No indeed !
I do not hope for such if that is what you mean.

If God could cause me to believe out of abject unbelief and in hostile disinterest, to say "Lord Jesus" anybody can receive the same incomprehensible mercy.

If I can receive Jesus as Lord, there is no one, but NO ONE participating in this Forum to whom the same cannot happen. I don't care how vitriol, how sarcastic, how vehement, how blasphemous they are.

Come on, you must have read about how the Apostle Paul said that God saved him [Paul] to serve as an example, Paul being, the chiefest (or foremost) of sinners. He was assenting to the killing of Christians.

Here Paul says God saved him to be a standard model of one who received mercy to believe. Read the whole passage now -

" I give thanks to Him who empowers me, Christ Jesus our Lord, that He has counted me faithful, appointing me to the ministry,

Who formerly was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insulting person; but I was shown mercy because being ignorant I acted in unbelief, ...

But because of this I was shown mercy, that in me, the foremost, Jesus Christ might display all His long-suffering for a pattern to those who are to believe on Him unto eternal life." (See 1 Timothy 13,16)

He also says that he was the foremost of sinners.

"Faithful is the word and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am foremost." (v.15)

Originally posted by sonship

He said all judgment was put into His hands. And that there will be a resurrection onto life and a resurrection unto damnation.

What kind of man He was and is, and what He endured behind the conviction that His own words were true, I cannot ignore. He died to save me.

If He didn't say those things then you have to explain why He went through the agony of what He did evidently for the purpose that I be saved.

And the revenge your God figure supposedly takes against those who just do not believe any of this is to subject them to eternal torture, right?

Originally posted by sonship
If God could cause me to believe out of abject unbelief and in hostile disinterest, to say "Lord Jesus" anybody can receive the same incomprehensible mercy.

If I can receive Jesus as Lord, there is no one, but NO ONE participating in this Forum to whom the same cannot happen.

Is the fact that you find it "incomprehensible" an important part of its appeal to you?

Originally posted by sonship
I don't care how vitriol, how sarcastic, how vehement, how blasphemous they are.

I am similarly unaffected by how vitriolic, sarcastic, vehement, or insulting Christians can be.

Originally posted by FMF

You sound either a little bit squeamish about your own ideology here, or you are seeking to make it to sound a little bit less ludicrous.

Whatever I am NOT ... I take Jesus as all that I need.
Can't lose !

Whatever you would like to point to as weak or wrong or evil in me ... I have a perfect One as a Lord and Savior to totally be my person.

Whatever I lack I find in living in Him.

Don't wait for the perfect Christian to come by before you say "Lord Jesus I receive you." We're all a work in progress.

I mean ... duh! If you get saved or possibly come back from being back slidden, you'll be crazy to want to tell others too. And you will also be a work in progress.

I am not recommending that you look to me. I am recommending that you look to Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by sonship
Don't wait for the perfect Christian to come by before you say "Lord Jesus I receive you." We're all a work in progress.

I have met countless Christians that I have admired. I am not waiting for them to come by or do anything. I am just giving you feedback that's all.