05 May 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerIs Coletti's quoted assertion right or wrong?
I wouldn't say that one cannot believe in Genesis as a whole. For instance, if Genesis says, "Abraham slept," then there is no reason for me to reject it right away.
I would put it thus - it is less reasonable to believe in an improbable event from Genesis than similar events in most other books of the Bible.
05 May 05
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI agree. I consider historical evidence (old records, etc) to be fairly strong, especially when combined from diverse sources. The case you give is a good example. Tree rings are also excellent for calibrating date measurements.
If one man observed the tortoise's birth, and made careful observations of the tortoise until the man died, and kept careful written records of his observations, and then another person took over and continued the observation, then the tortoise's lifespan would be legitimately observed. It takes some extreme skepticism to deny that!
05 May 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThe assertion has several parts.
Is Coletti's quoted assertion right or wrong?
Aging has is mainly a genetic issue.
This is opinion. There are genetic and environmental influences to aging. I don't know enough about the subject to agree or disagree with any confidence. This is not a statement which is definitely right or wrong as it is opinion, unless the speaker were to rigorously define "mainly". Coletti did not.
Theoretically, scientist are close to solving the problem of aging.
Again, opinion.
In another 20 years, aging may be just another disease we have a cure for.
This is correct, as it includes the word "may".
05 May 05
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI think Dr S. is talking about Coletti's quote on believing in something one thinks is reasonable.
The assertion has several parts.
[b]Aging has is mainly a genetic issue.
This is opinion. There are genetic and environmental influences to aging. I don't know enough about the subject to agree or disagree with any confidence. This is not a statement which is definitely right or wrong as it is opinion, unless the speaker were to rigorous ...[text shortened]... ust another disease we have a cure for.[/b]
This is correct, as it includes the word "may".[/b]
05 May 05
2 edits
Originally posted by lucifershammerGreat. You also said that it is probably unreasonable to believe in Noah's age as recorded in Genesis.
I agree with Coletti's quote.
It follows from Coletti's quote that one (probably) cannot have faith in Noah's age as recorded in Genesis.
It follows that Genesis asserts things in which one cannot have faith.
It follows that one cannot have faith in Genesis as a whole, for if one believed it as a whole, one would have to believe each thing that it asserted.
I'm not making the claim that Genesis cannot be believed in part; I'm simply saying that as a whole you cannot believe in Genesis, and by extension, you cannot believe in the Bible as a whole. You can at best pick parts of the Bible to believe; the rest must not be believed, if Coletti's claim is correct.
05 May 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWhich quote are you following from? (I'm so very quotable. 😉 )
Great. You also said that it is probably unreasonable to believe in Noah's age as recorded in Genesis.
It follows from Coletti's quote that one (probably) cannot have faith in Noah's age as recorded in Genesis.
It follows that Genesis asserts things in which one cannot have faith.
It follows that one cannot have faith in Genesis as a who ...[text shortened]... k parts of the Bible to believe; the rest must not be believed, if Coletti's claim is correct.
And who is the "one" you keep refering too?
05 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThat's okay. I'll restate.
The assertion has several parts.
[b]Aging has is mainly a genetic issue.
This is opinion. There are genetic and environmental influences to aging. I don't know enough about the subject to agree or disagree with any confi ...[text shortened]... cure for.[/b]
This is correct, as it includes the word "may".[/b]
It is the opinion of many scientist (who specialize in genetics) that there may be a genetic cure for aging.
It's closely related to the disease that causes premature aging in children - unrelated to environmental factors. It's a genetic disease. (I'm going by memory here so I may have the details wrong.) The scientist found that the end of the DNA strands had short sections that are similar to the plastic tags on the end of shoe laces. These tag get shorter as the cells divide until they reach a point here the DNA starts to break down - I guess they fail to replicate cells reliable. And that is the cause of aging. Some cells divide fast and often, so we see aging in the skin ealier than other organs.
Children with the disease have very short tags and so they start aging at a rapid rate. The scientist say if we can figure out how to restore or rebuild there tags, theoretically we would cure aging. In their opinion, aging is a genetic disorder.
05 May 05
Originally posted by ColettiThis quote: "Reason is a necessary condition of faith. You can not believe in something if you think it is unreasonable."
Which quote are you following from? (I'm so very quotable. 😉 )
And who is the "one" you keep refering too?
My "one" refers to whatever your "you" refers to.
05 May 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesAre your beliefs reasonable because they are correct? What about the ones that are wrong? Would they then be unreasonable? Or maybe the correctness has no connection to what is reasonable.
If I were to believe that a man lived to be over 900 years old, given everything that I know through experience about man and living things in general, that would be an unreasonable belief.
06 May 05
3 edits
Originally posted by ColettiA belief's reasonableness does not entail correctness. That is, beliefs can be both reasonable and incorrect.
Are your beliefs reasonable because they are correct? What about the ones that are wrong? Would they then be unreasonable? Or maybe the correctness has no connection to what is reasonable.
Here is one example. Suppose I remove 25 red cards from a standard deck, leaving one red card and 26 black. I shuffle the deck. I hold that it is perfectly reasonable to believe that the top card is black, and I acknowledge that that belief may also be incorrect.
Additionally, if one were to believe in the same scenario that the top card was red, that belief would not be reasonable, although it may be correct. Thus, a belief's correctness does not entail that it is reasonable. That is, beliefs can be both correct and unreasonable.
06 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesLet us consider a real world example. Approximately 6 months ago, bbarr held a belief that John Kerry would be elected President. Based on this belief, he entered into a wager with me, challenging my belief that George Bush would be elected President.
A belief's reasonableness does not entail correctness. That is, beliefs can be both reasonable and incorrect.
Here is one example. Suppose I remove 25 red cards from a standard deck, leaving one red card and 26 black. I shuff ...[text shortened]... easonable. That is, beliefs can be both correct and unreasonable.
It turned out that his belief was incorrect and mine was correct. However, one cannot conclude anything about the reasonableness of either of our beliefs based on this fact.