False Hope

Originally posted by Rajk999
And according to some they dont need to change they just need to talk about Jesus.

Why would anyone change if they lacked the faith and conviction that what Jesus said needs to be taken seriously?

Originally posted by whodey
Jesus said that sin enslaves and that he has the keys to set us free.

According to others, we don't need Jesus to set us free from sin, they can manage on their own.

Yes those are the ones who put their faith in their own efforts and righteousness.

Originally posted by Rajk999
If someone reads the teachings of Christ and decides to follow the good works that Jesus spoke of they do in fact have faith.

Exactly so why then did you say they don't need to have faith?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
(Psst, when they adhere to His law written on their hearts).

When you break one of His laws you are guilty of all. Everyone has broken at least one. Your own efforts do not save you from the condemnation of sin.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Exactly so why then did you say they don't need to have faith?

YOU Say they dont have faith. I have repeatedly quoted you this passage from James:

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (James 2:17-20 KJV)

Here we have two men:
1 A boasting one that says he has faith, but no works. Proving that your statement that faith is required to have works is nonsense.
2. A working one. James says that his good works is proof of faith.

Originally posted by dj2becker
When you break one of His laws you are guilty of all. Everyone has broken at least one. Your own efforts do not save you from the condemnation of sin.

Jesus saves good righteous people from the condemnation of sin.
Good people are sons of God
Sinful people are children of the devil.

Your classification of people in Christians and nonChristians in foolishness.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Why would anyone change if they lacked the faith and conviction that what Jesus said needs to be taken seriously?

There are some atheists who take the teachings of Christ more seriously than Christians. In fact these threads prove that fact daily.

Originally posted by Rajk999
YOU Say they dont have faith. I have repeatedly quoted you this passage from James:

[i]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and[b] I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils a ...[text shortened]... to have works is nonsense.
2. A working one. James says that his good works is proof of faith.[/b]

All I have said is that faith is needed you are the one claiming that faith is not needed.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus saves good righteous people from the condemnation of sin.
Good people are sons of God
Sinful people are children of the devil.

Your classification of people in Christians and nonChristians in foolishness.

If you think some people are not sinful but righteous on their own accord you are wrong. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
All fall short. But many, though short will still enter Gods Kingdom.
Who enters? Not talkers, not hearers, but DOERS.

I notice you rather enjoy boasting of your sins. That is only a virture ONCE.
Boast that you are a sinner, yes but then change
Then continue on to REPENTANCE
Then further continue on to good works.

This is what Paul warned. You be ...[text shortened]... id .. ie repent and and change from that state, is only going to lead to your eternal damnation.

Jesus only condemned those who thought that they were above sinners.

Jesus condemned those who prayed out loud, "God, thank you that I'm not like all of these other sinners", but he then praised those who abased themselves and humbly asked him to forgive their sins.

Jesus went out of his way to select "sinners" like Matthew who was a tax collector, people that were largely disdained by the so called righteous religious leaders.

Jesus is needed to not only break the cycle of sin, but also to wash those sins away.

Again, Jesus is the key to salvation. No other name has that power.

I take no glory in sinning, but taking glory in not sinning is equally insane. After all, it is merely what is expected in the eyes of God and impossible, without the power of Christ

Originally posted by dj2becker
When you break one of His laws you are guilty of all. Everyone has broken at least one. Your own efforts do not save you from the condemnation of sin.

Agreed, all humans commit 'sin' sometimes. Perfection simply isn't in us. Consider 1 John 1:8-9:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "

My conscience has me acknowledge and feel guilty for any unrighteous behaviour. Therefore, according to John, the truth is in me and my transgressions are divinely forgiven.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Agreed, all humans commit 'sin' sometimes. Perfection simply isn't in us. Consider 1 John 1:8-9:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "

My conscience has me acknowledge and feel guilty for an ...[text shortened]... r. Therefore, according to John, the truth is in me and my transgressions are divinely forgiven.

Since you don't believe in God who do you confess your sins to, who forgives your sins and who cleanses you from all unrighteousness

What is your take on this verse?

And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges Me before others, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; but whoever denies Me before others will be denied before the angels of God (Luke 12:8,9).

Originally posted by whodey
Jesus only condemned those who thought that they were above sinners.

Jesus condemned those who prayed out loud, "God, thank you that I'm not like all of these other sinners", but he then praised those who abased themselves and humbly asked him to forgive their sins.

Jesus went out of his way to select "sinners" like Matthew who was a tax collector, peop ...[text shortened]... ll, it is merely what is expected in the eyes of God and impossible, without the power of Christ

Jesus called sinners to REPENTANCE.

You dont seem to know what that means, because you obviously still take pride and boast about your sins.

Plus I see nobody here boasting about good works

Originally posted by dj2becker
Since you don't believe in God who do you confess your sins to, who forgives your sins and who cleanses you from all unrighteousness

What is your take on this verse?

And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges Me before others, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; but whoever denies Me before others will be denied before the angels of God (Luke 12:8,9).

I prefer 1 John 1:8-9.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus called sinners to REPENTANCE.

You dont seem to know what that means, because you obviously still take pride and boast about your sins.

Plus I see nobody here boasting about good works

Where did I say repentance is not needed?