False Hope

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I prefer 1 John 1:8-9.

Since you don't believe in God who do you confess your sins to, who forgives your sins and who cleanses you from all unrighteousness?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Since you don't believe in God who do you confess your sins to, who forgives your sins and who cleanses you from all unrighteousness?

Through my conscience, my 'sins' are confessed/recognised internally. It is for God (if He exists) to determine the quality of my works and whether I am worthy of saving.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Since you don't believe in God who do you confess your sins to, who forgives your sins and who cleanses you from all unrighteousness

What is your take on this verse?

And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges Me before others, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; but whoever denies Me before others will be denied before the angels of God (Luke 12:8,9).

Whats your take on this:

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, ...
the King say unto them on his right hand,
Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom
prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For
I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me:
I was sick, and ye visited me:
I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Matthew 25:31-36 KJV)

Cant twist that now, can you. Its clear. Its simple and its Jesus talking.
Who is it that will enter the Kingdom of God is the question
Those who profess faith? No
Christians No.
It is those who obey Christ commandments.

Christ will hear a lot of complaining for sure:

- But Master, Paul said that all that is required is faith.. I have faith.
- We are eternally saved already Master, how can you cast me out .. YOU CANNOT DO THAT !!
- I have assurance of salvation ... here it is in writing
- Where is the grace Lord .. we are saved by Grace .. GRACE .. I WANT GRACE
- I went to church every Sunday
- I read my Bible and I called your name all the time.

Then
Jesus shall answer and say unto them, ... Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For
- I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
- I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
- I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
- naked, and ye clothed me not:
- sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:40-43 KJV)

Twist that if you like.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Whats your take on this:

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, ...
the King say unto them on his right hand,
Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom
prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For
I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, ...[text shortened]... k, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:40-43 KJV)

Twist that if you like.

What do you make of Mark 2:5?

When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Whats your take on this:

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, ... the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For
I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ...[text shortened]... ye clothed me not:
- sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:40-43 KJV)

Of course this means that proclaiming to have faith is not sufficient if that faith does not overflow with good works. But it does not mean that anyone who does 'good works' has faith and is purely saved by their works. You assume that people who do good works don't need faith but Jesus never says that. You alone say that.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Of course this means that proclaiming to have faith is not sufficient if that faith does not overflow with good works. But it does not mean that anyone who does 'good works' has faith and is purely saved by their works. You assume that people who do good works don't need faith but Jesus never says that. You alone say that.

If it turned out that good works were enough to warrant salvation, would you walk off in a huff?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Of course this means that proclaiming to have faith is not sufficient if that faith does not overflow with good works. But it does not mean that anyone who does 'good works' has faith and is purely saved by their works. You assume that people who do good works don't need faith but Jesus never says that. You alone say that.

I am not assuming anything. Jesus is SPELLING IT OUT CLEARLY, and dealing with the issue of
WHO ENTERS THE KINGDOM OF GOD

He spells it out so clearly that he repeats it over and over. You think he did not have time or space in the chapter to talk about faith? NOT A WORD HE SAYS ABOUT FAITH... NOT ONE SOLITARY WORD.

Those who do good works will enter the Kingdom of God.

Jesus says that. Not me.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If it turned out that good works were enough to warrant salvation, would you walk off in a huff?

I gave him some excuses to try

- But Master, Paul said that all that is required is faith.. I have faith.
- We are eternally saved already Master, how can you cast me out .. YOU CANNOT DO THAT !!
- I have assurance of salvation ... here it is in writing
- Where is the grace Lord .. we are saved by Grace .. GRACE .. I WANT GRACE
- I went to church every Sunday
- I read my Bible and I called your name all the time.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If it turned out that good works were enough to warrant salvation, would you walk off in a huff?

If good works were enough to warrant salvation Jesus died in vain and the gospel would not make sense.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I am not assuming anything. Jesus is SPELLING IT OUT CLEARLY, and dealing with the issue of
WHO ENTERS THE KINGDOM OF GOD

He spells it out so clearly that he repeats it over and over. You think he did not have time or space in the chapter to talk about faith? NOT A WORD HE SAYS ABOUT FAITH... NOT ONE SOLITARY WORD.

Those who do good works will enter the Kingdom of God.

Jesus says that. Not me.

If faith is not necessary why did Jesus say we have to believe in Him? And why are there so many scriptures that say we are saved by faith and not by works? If you reject the scriptures that say we are not saved by works why do you accept only the words in the Bible that you like? It's either all or nothing, you can't pick and choose.

Originally posted by dj2becker
If good works were enough to warrant salvation Jesus died in vain and the gospel would not make sense.

Where did Jesus say that?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Where did Jesus say that?

Well you obviously only pick and choose which parts of the Bible you like and you ignore the rest so you will probably also ignore this:

Galatians 2:21

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

King James Version (KJV)

Originally posted by dj2becker
Well you obviously only pick and choose which parts of the Bible you like and you ignore the rest so you will probably also ignore this:

Galatians 2:21

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

King James Version (KJV)

Jesus called those who followed His commandments, righteous.

So pick one .. you are misinterpreting Paul or Paul is mistaken. I think its the former.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus called those who followed His commandments, righteous.

So pick one .. you are misinterpreting Paul or Paul is mistaken. I think its the former.

He also said if you love me you will follow my commands. You are the one claiming that someone who does not believe in Jesus let alone love him can follow his commands. The people that keep his commands are clearly the ones that love him, believe in Him and have faith in Him. The rest of the scriptures support this.

Originally posted by dj2becker
He also said if you love me you will follow my commands. You are the one claiming that someone who does not believe in Jesus let alone love him can follow his commands. The people that keep his commands are clearly the ones that love him, believe in Him and have faith in Him. The rest of the scriptures support this.

You figure it out. Many atheists say that they follow Christ commandments [chief of which is to love your neighbour as yourself], while the Christian community go to great lengths to condemn Christ commandments by calling it legalistic and trying to earn ones salvation.