False Hope

Originally posted by Rajk999
Where did Jesus say that?

It was demonstrated as the thief who died on the cross next to Jesus reached out to Christ in faith and was told by Jesus that he would be in paradise with him, much like those who reached out for healing in faith were told by Jesus that their sins were forgiven.

Would you have been one of the enraged religious leaders demanding that Jesus was out of line for telling sinners that their sins had been forgiven without any good works or even a confession of sins I wonder?

Originally posted by whodey
It was demonstrated as the thief who died on the cross next to Jesus reached out to Christ in faith...

You reckon?

Originally posted by Rajk999
1. My Kind of false hope - I believe that Jesus will welcome into his Kingdom all those who live righteously. Why? Jesus said so, first and foremost. Also in Romans 2, Paul dealt with the issue of people with no law. Some of these people follow their conscience and some are able to live righteously.

This is a very difficult question.

(1) Luke 12 shows us that those who do not know God at all will be held to a lesser standard, while those who know will be held to a higher one. Your passage from Romans 2 also talks about people being repaid for the evil that they do, and those who are 'self-seeking' and reject the truth will face the wrath of God.

Here, I think, he clearly speaks of the atheist or the people who consciously reject God's word.

Obviously, I cannot determine if the people who consciously reject Christianity & the Gospel within European society will constitute an "ignorance" of God, but if we give them the benefit of the doubt, that they have read & understood the Gospels... how are the Atheists in any way covered with the "ignorance of God" that is more likely applicable to the Muslim, the Buddhist, the Hindu and the tribal peoples without access, means or circumstance to gain knowledge of God?

I do believe that mercy will be shown to many, but I also believe that there is a judgment that will occur. At some point, people will go to hell.

(2) You also said that "Some of these people follow their conscience and some are able to live righteously."

From the same book of text you wished to cite, and likely a very continuation of the words you wanted us to take in as truth earlier, Romans 3:

"“10There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[b]"

This is a continuous theme along hte lines of original sin and the fallen nature of man.

Christ died on the Cross because Man needs a redeemer, and the most basic prayer in our Orthodox faith is "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." Man requires repentence and mercy.

Matthew 4:17: Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near (Christ's own words)
Luke 24:46-48: Christ will die and rise again on the Third Day and the Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins will be preached to all the nations... again, Christ.

Repentance must be done.

Originally posted by Jacob Verville
This is a very difficult question.

(1) Luke 12 shows us that those who do not know God at all will be held to a lesser standard, while those who know will be held to a higher one. Your passage from Romans 2 also talks about people being repaid for the evil that they do, and those who are 'self-seeking' and reject the truth will face the wrath of G ...[text shortened]... eness of Sins will be preached to all the nations... again, Christ.

Repentance must be done.

What in your mind does repentance entail?

Originally posted by Rajk999
And according to some they dont need to change they just need to talk about Jesus.

Some? Who?

Let's shine some light on your false witness.

Originally posted by whodey
It was demonstrated as the thief who died on the cross next to Jesus reached out to Christ in faith and was told by Jesus that he would be in paradise with him, much like those who reached out for healing in faith were told by Jesus that their sins were forgiven.

Would you have been one of the enraged religious leaders demanding that Jesus was out of line ...[text shortened]... that their sins had been forgiven without any good works or even a confession of sins I wonder?

Forgiveness of sins means repentance from sins and avoiding them in the future. Im pretty sure that you have been boasting of your sins for the last 10 years that I know you around here. Thats really pathetic. You have not developed as a Christian at all. When are you going to start .... Oh .. forgot .. you are waiting for your death bed to do that thief on the cross thingy ... cool.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
(Psst, when they adhere to His law written on their hearts).

Apparently, you cannot read (or you just ignore it) when, in the very next chapter, Paul also says that ALL fall short. NONE can be saved without Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Forgiveness of sins means repentance from sins and avoiding them in the future. Im pretty sure that you have been boasting of your sins for the last 10 years that I know you around here. Thats really pathetic. You have not developed as a Christian at all. When are you going to start .... Oh .. forgot .. you are waiting for your death bed to do that thief on the cross thingy ... cool.

Again, you lie and you bear false witness, and yet ironically, you expect to be saved by your works.

Originally posted by Jacob Verville
This is a very difficult question.

(1) Luke 12 shows us that those who do not know God at all will be held to a lesser standard, while those who know will be held to a higher one. Your passage from Romans 2 also talks about people being repaid for the evil that they do, and those who are 'self-seeking' and reject the truth will face the wrath of G ...[text shortened]... eness of Sins will be preached to all the nations... again, Christ.

Repentance must be done.

Was Jesus Christ mistaken then when he said that he would welcome THE RIGHTEOUS into the Kingdom of God?

Clearly he was because Paul said that none are righteous.

Oh .. where are my manners. Welcome to the Spirituality Forum.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Again, you lie and you bear false witness, and yet ironically, you expect to be saved by your works.

You think Rajk999's reaction to whodey constitutes a "lie"?

Originally posted by Jacob Verville
This is a very difficult question.

(1) Luke 12 shows us that those who do not know God at all will be held to a lesser standard, while those who know will be held to a higher one. Your passage from Romans 2 also talks about people being repaid for the evil that they do, and those who are 'self-seeking' and reject the truth will face the wrath of G ...[text shortened]... eness of Sins will be preached to all the nations... again, Christ.

Repentance must be done.

Romans 3, yes.

Where have I heard that before?

And, as expected, Rajk also blew off my entire thread about it.

Originally posted by Jacob Verville
This is a very difficult question.

(1) Luke 12 shows us that those who do not know God at all will be held to a lesser standard, while those who know will be held to a higher one. Your passage from Romans 2 also talks about people being repaid for the evil that they do, and those who are 'self-seeking' and reject the truth will face the wrath of G ...[text shortened]... eness of Sins will be preached to all the nations... again, Christ.

Repentance must be done.

Greetings and salutations, welcome!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Greetings and salutations, welcome!

Indeed, welcome to the site Jacob.