Father and Son

Originally posted by muppyman
The latest wrinkle in godliness, conversion by insult and ridicule. IRRESISTABLE preaching. Can't remember ever being so impressed such manifestation of God's love reflecting from His servant.

Then if you are so sure you know how His servant should act, then don't wait for anyone else. You serve Him accordingly.

Are you going to use the failures of others to excuse yourself for your unbelief and vehement opposition to Christ?

Originally posted by muppyman
The latest wrinkle in godliness, conversion by insult and ridicule. IRRESISTABLE preaching. Can't remember ever being so impressed such manifestation of God's love reflecting from His servant.

did i say i was perfect, did i state that i am not prone to human error and aberration, why do you people expect complete moral perfection when it is quite evident that while in a state of imperfection it is not possible. the poster has failed to issue even one iota of a letter to substantiate his unfounded and prejudiced codswallop of a claim, i was merely bringing this to his attention. he knows absolutely nothing and worse than that, he is so convinced by his nothingness as to influence others, this is not an insult or ridicule, but simply a statement of fact! i make no apology for it! but you are correct, this is no way to convince others of the excelling and sublime worth of scriptural truth, and i apologize to you if you are offended by it, please do not be put off from examining some of the other excellent posts, jaywill, especially, for he is more tolerant, conscientious and well behaved than this theist, sorry, regards Robbie.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
did i say i was perfect, did i state that i am not prone to human error and aberration, why do you people expect complete moral perfection when it is quite evident that while in a state of imperfection it is not possible. the poster has failed to issue even one iota of a letter to substantiate his unfounded and prejudiced codswallop of a claim, i wa ...[text shortened]... or he is more tolerant, conscientious and well behaved than this theist, sorry, regards Robbie.

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some of the other excellent posts, jaywill, especially, for he is more tolerant, conscientious and well behaved than this theist, sorry, regards Robbie.
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Thanks robbie , but I think Epi is the best Christian apologist here.
I'm just an evangelist with an attitude.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
did i say i was perfect, did i state that i am not prone to human error and aberration, why do you people expect complete moral perfection when it is quite evident that while in a state of imperfection it is not possible. the poster has failed to issue even one iota of a letter to substantiate his unfounded and prejudiced codswallop of a claim, i wa ...[text shortened]... or he is more tolerant, conscientious and well behaved than this theist, sorry, regards Robbie.

Robbie, did I say that you said you were perfect? You know full well what happened to the only man who ever was perfect, and that is why you have no need to attain such a state. Nor do you need to apologize to me, I was not offended in any way by any post you have made, many of which I have examined, along with others you recommend. I was simply amused by what I found to be slightly ironic about your post. Frankly I am of the opinion that life is far too short to waste any of it apologising for being yourself.

unbeliefOriginally posted by jaywill
Then if you are so sure you know how His servant should act, then don't wait for anyone else. You serve Him accordingly.

Are you going to use the failures of others to excuse yourself for your unbelief and vehement opposition to Christ?

Thank you for your comment, but I will happily pass on serving Him. I read how a certain man who was referred to by Him as "my servant Job', and that put me off serving Him ever. ( Not the only thing that alienated me, of course.) I need no excuses for my unbelief, I don't accept that my "opposition" to Christ is vehement, but I do think it is at least as steadfast as your advocacy of Him. Is that vehement? You describe yourself as an evangalist with an attitude. I could say I am an atheist with an attitude, and my attitude is, If God has any problem with that, let Him do something about it.

Originally posted by muppyman
Robbie, did I say that you said you were perfect? You know full well what happened to the only man who ever was perfect, and that is why you have no need to attain such a state. Nor do you need to apologize to me, I was not offended in any way by any post you have made, many of which I have examined, along with others you recommend. I was simply amused by w ...[text shortened]... am of the opinion that life is far too short to waste any of it apologising for being yourself.

Lol, well at least you were amused, its more than i can say for myself! sometimes there are just some things that are not befitting a person, some traits that we ourselves do not admire within ourselves and when they are pointed out by others, we must surely take note.

the whole point of the Christian ethos is that its dynamic, that it can change a person from inside, that he/she can overcome these negative traits and be transformed in a metamorphic process into something beautiful!, its amazing to me, it really is, but not always easy! sometimes the forum can bring to the surface those traits which we do not admire and in full public as well, but its the nature of the thing. Also i do not feel that we can excuse lack of civility with simply being ourselves, to do so is simply to excuse our behavioral attitude, its just me, that's the way i am, take it or leave it! this is not the way for Christians and this is why i felt so remorseful at you comments! 😀

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Lol, well at least you were amused, its more than i can say for myself! sometimes there are just some things that are not befitting a person, some traits that we ourselves do not admire within ourselves and when they are pointed out by others, we must surely take note.

the whole point of the Christian ethos is that its dynamic, that it can chang ...[text shortened]... t! this is not the way for Christians and this is why i felt so remorseful at you comments! 😀

Will it help at all if I forgive you for being yourself in public? Even your God said "I am that I am."
Here's a thought for you to cogitate. A scripture says "The righteous shall flourish as a palm" Palm trees grow by putting out fronds or branches which seem to be full of vitality, but as the palm grows these branches die and fall off, thus revealing the development of the trunk. If you think of the branches as normal human traits, like anger, selfseeking, jealousy etc. they seem to become "treasures of darkness" when they fall off, the true shape of the life form is shown in their place. That is the way a palm grows and flourishes, and the fruit is right at the top when the tree is mature. Maybe you could liken that as coming "to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" as it says in Hebrews, I think.

Originally posted by muppyman
Will it help at all if I forgive you for being yourself in public? Even your God said "I am that I am."
Here's a thought for you to cogitate. A scripture says "The righteous shall flourish as a palm" Palm trees grow by putting out fronds or branches which seem to be full of vitality, but as the palm grows these branches die and fall off, thus revealing ...[text shortened]... to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" as it says in Hebrews, I think.

ok, a number of things here, yes it would help, and i really do thank you for your encouragement, and rather interestingly and quite ironic really, there are not a few with atheistic tendencies on the spirituality forum that i have derived great encouragement from!

a better translation of this phrase, 'i am that i am' is, 'i shall prove to be what i shall prove to be', for it comes from Hebrew word 'Ehyeh', which is derivative of verb 'hayah' meaning, 'become, prove to be.' Here 'Ehyeh' is in the imperfect state, first person singular, meaning 'I shall become' or, 'I shall prove to be.' thus the reference here is not to Gods self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others. therefore your quotation is rather fitting and quite apt, don't you think?

perhaps you can site the verse from the psalms, for it escapes me at present. please clarify this point for me, for its late and i have had a few glasses of red wine, when you speak of the 'treasures of darkness', as 'normal', human traits, are you suggesting that as we mature, they fall off and our true character is revealed as a natural consequence?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, a number of things here, yes it would help, and i really do thank you for your encouragement, and rather interestingly and quite ironic really, there are not a few with atheistic tendencies on the spirituality forum that i have derived great encouragement from!

a better translation of this phrase, 'i am that i am' is, 'i shall prove to be what ...[text shortened]... they fall off and our true character is revealed as a natural consequence?

In a way yes, I am saying that if you are flourishing as a palm, in righteousness, your "new creature" persona will be revealed as your darkness is replaced by light, which would be, in my view, the only way darkness can be treasured, as a memory instead of an affliction.
By the way, remember two texts concerning wine; Take a little wine, for the stomach's sake; Be not drunk with wine, wherin is excess. 🙂
For the psalm you seek, try looking in Young's Concordance, or similar.

Originally posted by muppyman
In a way yes, I am saying that if you are flourishing as a palm, in righteousness, your "new creature" persona will be revealed as your darkness is replaced by light, which would be, in my view, the only way darkness can be treasured, as a memory instead of an affliction.
By the way, remember two texts concerning wine; Take a little wine, for the stomach' ...[text shortened]... erin is excess. 🙂
For the psalm you seek, try looking in Young's Concordance, or similar.

Hi, when we read scripture, which I readily deduce you are quite well versed in and not adverse to quoting, we find that for a Christian, this transformation should be a complete metamorphosis, to such an extent that the 'new personality', is completely unrecognizable from that which went before. the idea is taken from the transformation from a caterpillar to butterfly, all through the stages, from egg, to larva, to chrysalis eventually to butterfly, the butterfly is unrecognizable from what went before.

It must be stated that the 'new personality' is not some kind of beautiful-looking mask that one puts on over the old personality. Nope, the 'new personality' is not character development in which one develops outwardly but inwardly is still the same! the mind and its faculty for evaluation must be renewed according to Gods spirit and the divine will, so let us be quite clear, there can be no insincerity or hypocrisy associated with the 'new personality', however! as Adamic sin is still prevalent while in a state of imperfection, the Christian needs to be ever vigilant! for it may rise to the surface and need beating down with a big stick!

it interests me my friend, from your knowledge of scripture, that perhaps in the past you were a christian, or were at least interested enough to look into verse, but at some point, for some reason, you have decided that it was not for you, do you care to elucidate as to why?

Actually last night i had spaghetti bolognese and as you are aware a couple of glasses of red wine compliments it immeasurably, but it may leave one a little drowsy, certainly no where near drunk, just in case i gave the wrong impression - regards Robbie.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hi, when we read scripture, which I readily deduce you are quite well versed in and not adverse to quoting, we find that for a Christian, this transformation should be a complete metamorphosis, to such an extent that the 'new personality', is completely unrecognizable from that which went before. the idea is taken from the transformation from a cate ...[text shortened]... ertainly no where near drunk, just in case i gave the wrong impression - regards Robbie.

The reasons for my espousal of atheism are not a matter of public record, nor will they become so. Suffice it to say that the reasons are good enough for me to be convinced forever. Let me make this one concession to Christian ideas. If the person who originally invented religion is in a place worthy of the invention, then I would have to grudgingly agree that hell would have to exist.

Originally posted by muppyman
The reasons for my espousal of atheism are not a matter of public record, nor will they become so. Suffice it to say that the reasons are good enough for me to be convinced forever. Let me make this one concession to Christian ideas. If the person who originally invented religion is in a place worthy of the invention, then I would have to grudgingly agree that hell would have to exist.

ok i respect your privacy, this is your matter and either a product of your reasoning or of your experience, i will probe no further. i myself do not profess that hell, as a literal place of torment either exists, nor can be inferred to from scripture, was unknown to the Hebrews and is of pagan origin. God would never, because of the perfect balance of his love and justice, consign someone to eternal torment for mistakes they have made while in a state of imperfection. the best that you can hope for is not hell as a place of fiery torment, but simply non life, the worst perpetrators being denied, for eternity, the prospect of a resurrection to life. this is my understanding, based on scripture. why it would need to be invented i do not know, unless of course, you reason, that because of acts of extreme injustice, the perpetrators deserve torture and punishment, but God is not vindictive in this way, nor is his justice.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok i respect your privacy, this is your matter and either a product of your reasoning or of your experience, i will probe no further. i myself do not profess that hell, as a literal place of torment either exists, nor can be inferred to from scripture, was unknown to the Hebrews and is of pagan origin. God would never, because of the perfect balanc ...[text shortened]... ators deserve torture and punishment, but God is not vindictive in this way, nor is his justice.

🙂 I wasn't suggesting there is a hell,(no atheist would do that), I was just being faceteous, implying that from an atheistic perspective, if there was a hell, the instigator of religions should be sent there. In fact, if I was a Christian, I suspect I would strongly embrace the concept of ultimate universal reconcilliation, because I can't conceive that God would be a God of love without it. e.g. "God is not slack concerning His promises, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Originally posted by muppyman
🙂 I wasn't suggesting there is a hell,(no atheist would do that), I was just being faceteous, implying that from an atheistic perspective, if there was a hell, the instigator of religions should be sent there. In fact, if I was a Christian, I suspect I would strongly embrace the concept of ultimate universal reconcilliation, because I can't conceive that G ...[text shortened]... ring to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

you must forgive my lack of wit! i am but a poor peasant, a simple, unassuming being with an earthy countenance! 1 Peter 3:9, or is it 2 Peter, cannot quite remember from the top of my head, one of my all time favorite scriptures that you quoted, for an Atheist you sure dig them scriptures!