Fear of Death

Originally posted by Starrman
I don't agree that death brings these events about. These events are side effects of what brings about death. As I have suggested, if we did not know that death would be the outcome, we'd still fear them. I see it the opposite way round to you.

I find that thinking that way is simply avoiding to face what death is.

You're not afraid of the lion because it's being torn apart that you're afraid. It's not being torn apart that you're afraid, it's the pain that being torn apart brings. It's actually not the pain itself that you're afraid of, it's the great displeasure that this pain brings about...

Reasoning like this is simply closing your eyes to what something means and entails.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is you that is not hearing me because you want me to say that I fear death. I never said that everyone is fearless unless they're presently afraid of something. I said that the word fear has different meanings depending on context. In fact fearless even "fearless" is hardly the opposite of fearful and even with that word, context is critical.
There is ...[text shortened]... "I fear I may fall over" or "I fear I may be wrong".
But not wanting to die is not fear.

The fact that you claim that there are irrational fears means that you consider that there are other types of fears.

Claiming that you don't fear death because you don't have an irrational fear of death is then false.

Originally posted by Palynka
I find that thinking that way is simply avoiding to face what death is.

You're not afraid of the lion because it's being torn apart that you're afraid. It's not being torn apart that you're afraid, it's the pain that being torn apart brings. It's actually not the pain itself that you're afraid of, it's the great displeasure that this pain brings about... ...[text shortened]...

Reasoning like this is simply closing your eyes to what something means and entails.

I am afraid of lions because they are big scary animals and evolution has endowed me with a natural fear of big scary animals whether or not they are likely to harm me.
I am also afraid of lions because I know they can harm me and I am afraid of the pain and possibility of death. But again the use of the word and context are critical.
I don't get too close to a cliff because I am afraid of falling off. Does this mean that I fear falling off a cliff?

Originally posted by Palynka
I find that thinking that way is simply avoiding to face what death is.

You're not afraid of the lion because it's being torn apart that you're afraid. It's not being torn apart that you're afraid, it's the pain that being torn apart brings. It's actually not the pain itself that you're afraid of, it's the great displeasure that this pain brings about... ...[text shortened]...

Reasoning like this is simply closing your eyes to what something means and entails.

Your ad infinitum regression is fine if you're looking to talk about an absolute psychological map of why we think any one thing, but it's an exercise in overkill here. All I'm saying is that fear of death, as the majority of people understand it, is just a blanket term and that death itself is not what they fear. Were they to pursue what lays underneath that blanket they would find the source of their fear is at least a step removed from death itself. With the example of the lion it is clearly obvious that people fear lions, regardless of death. I believe it is your view of death that is approached with eyes shut.

Originally posted by whodey
Thanks for your honesty. I to was terribly unsettled by the notion of death before I became a Christian. For me it was like being on the Titanic as it was sinking watching people make light of the situation or ignoring it altogether. I think part of the problem is that there are so many distractions in life which takes our minds off the prospect of dying t ...[text shortened]... ntrol us I think is where we make our mistake just as it is, if not more so, ignoring such fear.

That's interesting.
Personally I do try to ignore the fear of death, I just can't accept it; so much so that I have come to conclusion that I won't ever die, which seems kind of weird I know. 😕
Don't worry though, it's not like this spoils my life, it's at the back of my mind.

Technology is moving pretty damn quickly, maybe we can escape the cluthes of death itself in the future, I would certainly hope so... 😕

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am afraid of lions because they are big scary animals and evolution has endowed me with a natural fear of big scary animals whether or not they are likely to harm me.
I am also afraid of lions because I know they can harm me and I am afraid of the pain and possibility of death. But again the use of the word and context are critical.
I don't get too c ...[text shortened]... to a cliff because I am afraid of falling off. Does this mean that I fear falling off a cliff?

It's funny that you mention evolution. Any species that doesn't have an ingrained fear of death (or end of life, calling what you will) would most likely tend to disappear.

Originally posted by Starrman
Your ad infinitum regression is fine if you're looking to talk about an absolute psychological map of why we think any one thing, but it's an exercise in overkill here. All I'm saying is that fear of death, as the majority of people understand it, is just a blanket term and that death itself is not what they fear. Were they to pursue what lays underneath t ...[text shortened]... , regardless of death. I believe it is your view of death that is approached with eyes shut.

What is death itself if not the end of life? Evade it as much as you want, but claiming that fear of death is a blanket statement to express fear for the non-continuation of life is ridiculous as those are the same thing.

Originally posted by Palynka
I think that what Starrman said is all fine and dandy, but I actually don't believe anyone here doesn't fear death (although many won't admit it).

Transforming the meaning of fear into a phobia-like caricature about skeletons is simply avoiding the question. I seriously doubt any of us in face of the possibility of imminent death wouldn't be afraid.

Agreed.

Personally, I am afraid of dying because I am not yet done living. I still have yet to raise a family, have children, sail on the mediterranean, have a threesome, etc. If, today, I were to face my own mortality, I would indeed feel fear and sadness, not because my life might end but because my life might end prematurely.

If you have something to live for, how could you not be afraid of death if confronted by it?

Originally posted by Palynka
It's funny that you mention evolution. Any species that doesn't have an ingrained fear of death (or end of life, calling what you will) would most likely tend to disappear.

People make decisions every day to risk death - when such risk could be avoided - in order to acheive what they feel are important goals. Social animals routinely accept a high possibility of death to increase the survival possibilities of other members of the species, including non-related members. Fireman run into burning buildings, soldiers jump on grenades, etc. etc. etc. Your premise is simply false.

Originally posted by Bad wolf
Technology is moving pretty damn quickly, maybe we can escape the cluthes of death itself in the future, I would certainly hope so... 😕

Hey, I previously saw your thread about death, and my response here is cued towards that as well.

The best way to avoid dying is by living. I recommend exercising, especially running. We will all die eventually.

Time travel is not feasible. Medical technologies have advanced far enough that robot bodies may simulate most human functions, but they cannot simulate consciousness. [I find medical technologies amazing; the university I attend is known for its research and development of the artificial heart.]

Reprogenetics, which refers to the manipulation of the human genome, is very promising. Future technologies likely will permit scientists to alter the genome of embryos safely and efficiently. The genome is surprisingly flexible, evidenced by the success of cloning of other species.

Genetic engineering of the germline consists of directly altering the genetic code. Any conceivable gene and “any number of genes could be modified or added to an embryo.”(1) Repercussions of genetic enhancement are quite profound; consider the movie GATTACA.

Silver, Lee, “Reprogenetics: third millennium speculation” (EMBO Reports, Vol 1 No. 5, 2000)
(1) www.leemsilver.net/CNmedia/articles/00SilverEMBO.pdf

One may prolong life, but immortality is impossible.

"The limit to the number of times a cell divides has been noted in all human cell types that have been fully differentiated. The limit is believed to be one of the causes of aging. It is believed that if the shortening of telomeres can be slowed or prevented, life expectancy can be extended. Much research is happening in this area. The only known way of circumventing the Hayflick limit is with the enzyme telomerase, which regenerates telomeres during DNA replication."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit

Originally posted by Yuga
Hey, I previously saw your thread about death, and my response here is cued towards that as well.

The best way to avoid dying is by living. I recommend exercising, especially running. We will all die eventually.

Time travel is not feasible. Medical technologies have advanced far enough that robot bodies may simulate most human functions, but they canno ...[text shortened]... regenerates telomeres during DNA replication."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit

But I don't want to die. :'(


Medical technologies have advanced far enough that robot bodies may simulate most human functions, but they cannot simulate consciousness.
- Ah, but that is today, just look at how poor computers were in the 70s, a phone now has more power in it than what was used for moon landings (I've neen told...).
Can you not imagine computers being so powerful that they can hold a human consciousness within 50 years?

Originally posted by Palynka
What is death itself if not the end of life? Evade it as much as you want, but claiming that fear of death is a blanket statement to express fear for the non-continuation of life is ridiculous as those are the same thing.

That's not at all what I expressed, not even close. I am suggesting that most people are wrong when they say they are afraid of death. What I believe they are afraid of (as I have already put forward) is the possible pain, sudden occurrence, etc; the points leading up to the cessation of consciousness.

Whilst I appreciate you claim to have a fear of death, you have yet to sufficiently explain why this should be so for the rest of us. I am telling you how I perceive death, all you seem to have in response is that you don't believe me, which is fair enough, but please stop wilfully misinterpreting my argument.

Originally posted by darvlay
Agreed.

Personally, I am afraid of dying because I am not yet done living. I still have yet to raise a family, have children, sail on the mediterranean, have a threesome, etc. If, today, I were to face my own mortality, I would indeed feel fear and sadness, not because my life might end but because my life might end prematurely.

If you have something to live for, how could you not be afraid of death if confronted by it?

Everyone's lives end prematurely, that's the nature of existence. Knowing this ahead of time is one step towards reconciling your understanding of death. As I said before, I don't want to die and will regret the day when it comes, but it's inevitable, fearing it is a waste of the clearly important period before it arrives.

Originally posted by whodey
I just got into a discussion about death and those that fear it. I assumed that everyone did to some degree, however, it was brought to my attention that perhaps not everyone does. Firstly, is there anyone here with the cahoona's to say that they do not fear death? Secondly, if you believe in God is this fear at the core of your belief system? In other wo ...[text shortened]... aith? And lastly, if you do not believe in a God, how do you cope and face your fear of death?

I don't fear death becasue I will be present

2 Corinthians 5:8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.

I fear death for the unsaved world and those that I know that are not saved yet.

Originally posted by darvlay
Agreed.

Personally, I am afraid of dying because I am not yet done living. I still have yet to raise a family, have children, sail on the mediterranean, have a threesome, etc. If, today, I were to face my own mortality, I would indeed feel fear and sadness, not because my life might end but because my life might end prematurely.

If you have something to live for, how could you not be afraid of death if confronted by it?

I also agree; the problem is that you'll never have "done" enough. To take one example: the more you travel, the more you realise there are place you will never see, or places you will never see again.

Life is such a precious and beautiful thing, I doubt one can ever be completely reconciled to its absence.