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@sonship saidStill waiting for you to explain how these utterances by Witness Lee are in continuity with the NT:
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Thanks.
The distinction is that the phrases I gave you were right out of the NT text.
Your samples were very good. But they are expository utterances from one
teaching about the former.
Nice try though.
Go get some more!
“We are of the human nature, but covered with the divine."
"He is the God-man, and we are the God-men."
"In nature we are exactly the same.”
“We are human and divine’.”
“God’s economy and plan is to make Himself man and to make us, His created beings, God.’"
"We are ‘God-ized.’"
Where, for example, is God-ized to be located in the Bible?
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Why have you cherry-picked and avoided:
You didn't say you were waiting for anything.
You said why was I cherry picking. That was the ONLY question you had.
And it got answered.
My cherries were from the text of the NT.
You went over to another tree to pick.
I asked others IF they had questions about one of those phrases they could ask.
So you are misrepresenting the situation saying you are "still waiting."
Dishonesty and exaggeration are poor character traits, aren't they?
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@sonship saidPride and gullibility stain yours.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Exaggeration and dishonesty are a stain on your character aren't they?
No attempt to explain how the tree of Witness Lee shares the same fruit as the tree of the Bible? How very disappointing.
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Where in the Bible does it say God's intention is to make men God? Where does it use the word God-ized?
God-ized or Son- ized are not in the text of the Bible.
As the word trinity is not.
And as the word "rapture" I have never found.
And as the word "substitution" I probably might not find.
We do see "godliness". - "God manifest in the flesh"
We do see "sons of God" .
We and have experienced God being imparted into us to be our life.
We do see the church growing in the divine life, being builded up together in that life to become "the habitation of God in spirit" .
In the book of Revelation the entire CITY of New Jerusalem is called "the tabernacle of God". The CITY is the TABERNACLE. That means that it is the mutual dwelling place of God's saved and of God.
That is why the CITY is actually a matter of dwelling IN God and the Lamb as the living organic temple of God.
"And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." (Rev. 21:22)
The eternal destiny of the saved is to mutually dwell in the Triune God - God and the Lamb become the temple. The temple is the entire city.
This is according to the eternal purpose of God Almighty who created all things for this.
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The Lord's recovery includes the recovery of justification by faith. God used Martin Luther much to recover this neglected and buried truth.
The realization the church has to have is that God did not STOP there. He is moving on. And He is still recovering more of what the enemy sought to conceal, rob away, steal, hide, neglect from the saints of God.
This recovery is not a movement. It is the MOVE of the Holy Spirit.
He is still moving since the Reformation.
@pb1022 saidThis is where you and I will just have to disagree.
I embrace science.
But the theory of evolution is not science.
It doesn’t follow the Scientific Method because one species turning into another species was neither observed nor demonstrated by an experiment. And there have been attempts at the latter with bacteria and fruit flies, which have very short generational spans.
As far as I know, the only “evidence” for macr ...[text shortened]...
It’s clearly not science and those who don’t believe it are not against science. We’re for science.
I have no problem with a God who created physical rules for our universe using those same rules to create man.
I do have a problem with anti-evolutionists and YECs claiming that this is beyond God and that what he did was wave a magic wand to 'poof' everything into existence.
My God is vastly more capable than that.
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@suzianne saidWell as much as I dislike parting company with you suzianne, on this issue we are on opposite sides, though likely not for the reason you may think.
This is where you and I will just have to disagree.
I have no problem with a God who created physical rules for our universe using those same rules to create man.
I do have a problem with anti-evolutionists and YECs claiming that this is beyond God and that what he did was wave a magic wand to 'poof' everything into existence.
My God is vastly more capable than that.
The creation account in the Holy Bible is not the reason I don’t believe the theory of evolution. I don’t believe the theory of evolution because I don’t think anywhere near sufficient evidence exists to support it - and a lot of evidence exists that contradicts and discredits it.
And I think what is more implausible than God speaking everything into existence is God creating the entire universe and all the inanimate parts of it - stars, planets, moons, galaxies, nebulae, black holes, oceans, mountains, rivers etc., but when it came to life, He just created a single-celled organism, plopped it in the middle of the ocean and kicked back to see what would happen.
And I also think the intervening years since Darwin published his book haven’t been kind to his theory.
The “truly enormous” number of transitional fossils Darwin said would have to exist for his theory to be true haven’t turned up - instead we have the Cambrian explosion and no pre-Cambrian fossils.
The complexity of the cell and DNA, which weren’t known in Darwin’s time, also make his theory less credible as this is yet another layer of highly complex, interdependent material that supposedly developed by blind chance (random mutations and natural selection - when most mutations are either harmful or neutral to an organism.)
I absolutely believe that Darwin’s theory will one day (hopefully in my lifetime) be revealed as the biggest scientific fraud of the 20th- and 21st centuries (I give scientists in the 1800s a pass.)
I’m not a Young Earth Creationist but I haven’t really looked into that. I think God exists outside of time anyway, which kind of complicates the question.
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
(2 Peter 3:8)
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@sonship saidNot the same.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Where in the Bible does it say God's intention is to make men God? Where does it use the word God-ized?
God-ized or Son- ized are not in the text of the Bible.
As the word trinity is not.
And as the word "rapture" I have never found.
And as the word "substitution" I probably might not find.
We do see "godliness". - "God manifest in the flesh"
We do see "sons of God" .
This is a perfect example of how you attempt to corrupt/twist scripture to accommodate doctrines that are alien to the Bible. You try to 'smuggle them in' with terms that appear similar but which are in fact miles apart. So, to justify 'God-ized' (a term you admit is not in the Bible) you compare it with godliness and hope people will take them as synonyms. But they're not synonyms, are they? Godliness, when attributed to man, is not an act of 'becoming' God, but 'behaving' like God. In stark contrast, 'God-ized' is about the deification of man, with man 'becoming' God. (The 4 in 1 God that Witness Lee speaks of).
So I ask you again, where in the Bible does it say God's plan to to make men Gods? (And you need something better than 'sons of God.' )
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What is the meaning of godliness ?
Let's let the New Testament DEFINE it. [my bolding]
"And confessedly, great is the mystery of GODLINESS:
He who was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory." ( 1 Tim. 3:16)
This describes godliness. It Obviously refers to the God-man Jesus Christ.
Not only so, it also describes the church as it OUGHT to be and eventually must be because of God's faithfulness.
Why? Because if it only referred to God manifest in the flesh of Jesus Christ it should have had "Taken up in glory" PRECEED "Preached among the nations, Belived on in the world."
Christ ascension went BEFORE the preaching of the gospel and the world believing.
Since Paul wrote it this sequence:
"Preached among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory"
he must be referring to the rapture of the mature church at the end of the church age of preaching throughout the world and those in the world believing.
The ascension of Christ is a part of God manifest in the flesh.
And the eventual growth and rapture of the church is ALSO a part God manifest in the flesh.
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Revelation 12 about the rapture of the manchild shows at least a remnant of the church taken up in glory at the end of the church age AND just before the transition of the great tribulation time of three and one half years to usher in the kingdom age of the millennium.
Anyway godliness as defined by First Timothy 3:16 includes the incarnation and resurrection of Jesus Christ plus His dispensing Himself into His redeemed people to be the church of the living God the house of God.
Read it again:
"But if I delay, I write that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth.
And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness . . . "
The house of God, the church of the living God is being out in parallel with godliness. The living God manifested in Christ + the church of the living God which is His house. That is His organic house.
This godliness is Christ and the church. And this dual reality is "the pillar and base of the truth."
Christ and the church is the upholding platform displaying truth in this universe.
"The living God" means not a doctrinal God only but a God who is LIVING in men and women. This is godliness.
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The atheist objects:
This is a perfect example of how you attempt to corrupt/twist scripture to accommodate doctrines that are alien to the Bible
One little example to show this is not twisting but upholding Christ's teaching.
Ie. He says that He is the light of the world (John 8:12)
Yet He tells the constituents of the kingdom of the heavens under His administration that THEY . . . are the light of the world as well. (Matt. 5:14) .
In the same way the mystery of godliness is God manifest in Christ and God manifest in the church redeemed and built by Christ. Praise the Lord of Christ and the church.
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Christ is the light of the world.
John 8:12 - "Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall by no means walk in darkness, bit shall have the light of life."
The church that He infuses with Himself and builds as the kingdom of the heavens is the light of the world as well.
Matt. 5:14 - "You are the light of the world. It is impossible for a city situated upon a mountain to be hidden."
Christ and the church as godliness is the pillar and base of the truth.
The truth of the universe has its base and supporting pillar in Christ and the church of the living God.