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Specific articles on the local churches and the attitude we have towards those who do not meet in this way of our fellow Christians. [my bolding]
https://shepherdingwords.com/tag/christianity/
Our Attitude Toward Other Christians and Their Work Part 1: Maintaining the Oneness With Fellow Believers
Published on October 26, 2020 by admin
This three-part article will address the relationship between those who meet in the local churches and fellow believers, the denominations and free groups to which they may belong, and their work. If we are not clear in these matters, we may be influenced by accusations that those in the recovery divide themselves from other Christians. […]
Our Attitude Toward Other Christians and Their Work Part 2: The Vision of the Lord’s Recovery Being Contrary to Today’s Christianity
Published on October 26, 2020 by admin
In the first article of this series we saw the imperative of preserving the oneness of the Body of Christ and avoiding divisiveness on our part at all costs. Our attitude toward other believers, including those who do not meet with us in the local churches, should be one of acceptance and inclusion. For the […]
Our Attitude Toward Other Christians and Their Work Part 3: Not Entangling the Work of the Lord’s Recovery with Others’ Work
Published on October 26, 2020 by admin
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27 Dec 21
@sonship saidSo Witness Lee was in error when he wrote:
Specific articles on the local churches and the attitude we have towards those who do not meet in this way of our fellow Christians. [my bolding]
https://shepherdingwords.com/tag/christianity/
Our Attitude Toward Other Christians and Their Work Part 1: Maintaining the Oneness With Fellow Believers
Published on October 26, 2020 by admin
This three-part ...[text shortened]... g the Work of the Lord’s Recovery with Others’ Work
Published on October 26, 2020 by admin
"If we follow the wandering stars, eventually our portion will be the same as theirs--the blackness of darkness forever. . . If anyone comes to you without a definite standing and certain course, avoid him. The proper standing is the local church, and the right course is to go on in the Spirit in the local church. Never be a wandering star, and never follow a wandering star."
To be clear, he condemned wandering stars (people who didn't belong to his church) as destined for eternal darkness and blackness.
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Some excerpts and my comments from the book Finding Christ By the Living Star by Brother Witness Lee.
Many Christians make the Bible a story book, and some, especially the great teachers and speakers, make it a book of teachings.
Notice Lee calls other Christians "great teachers and speakers". If he didn't consider them Christian brothers why would he say this? Same with "many Christians". Obviously he acknowledges Christians outside the fellowship of local churches under his ministry.
In that chapter regarding the genealogy and conceiving of Christ, we do have a story and a certain amount of teaching. Nevertheless, we should not care for the story or the teaching; we should care for life. Some Christians may take the Gospel of John as a book of life, but we should also take the Gospel of Matthew and, in fact, every book in the Bible, as life and as the life supply.
"We" refers to all Christians. We Christians wherever we meet, should take the tedious genealogy in Matthew just as much as a teaching about spiritual life as we would take the Gospel of John.
In the Lord’s service we need guidance that is living, with nothing merely according to Bible knowledge. Please do not be offended by such a statement; as we consider this case of finding Christ, I believe you will see what I mean.
Lee knows that some of the things he has to say will be an offense to some who misunderstand. The rest is history.
Merely to hold the Bible in our hand and read Micah 5:2, which indicates that Christ will be born in Bethlehem, does not work. We may say after we have read it that we have it, but we may not have seen it.
A central burden throughout this little book is that Bible knowledge may not be enough to touch, experience, and enjoy Christ as our life. That includes every Christians whoever and wherever they meet.
Those chief priests and scribes knew the Bible so well, but the Lord did not go to them. He went far away to a heathen land to reveal this matter to some pagans, not through the Scriptures but through something which human hands cannot touch—a heavenly star.
The example he uses is the magi from the East coming to find Jesus. But the experts on the prophecy and the scribes and priest, though they knew the Scriptures, didn't go to follow the star to meet the Christ born.
We may study the Scriptures and obtain a degree in those studies, and we may learn all that the Bible has to say about Christ, but we simply cannot determine when the star will come. The book was with the Jewish people, the religious people, but the star appeared to the heathen.
Lee shows the priests praying in the temple didn't have the living star as one would suspect they should. Surprisingly, the heathen were the ones to see and follow it to Christ. The analogy is not about salvation so much as about experiencing the living and present Jesus.
It is a good analogy for any Christian regardless of where they meet.
Sometimes we just don't TOUCH the living Spirit of Jesus though we may be occupied with much Bible knowledge.
He is trying to help believers not condemn believers.
Cont. below.
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More excerpts from Finding Christ By the Living Star by Witness Lee
What we need today is not merely Bible knowledge but the heavenly vision, the instant vision, the living vision, the vision that human concepts cannot teach.
He is trying to help Christians everywhere with a living touch of their Lord Jesus and not be satisfied with mere knowledge of the Bible.
Let me check with you. What do you have? Do you have the Scripture verses, or do you have the star?
He is trying to help Christians. Check to see how vital your actual touch and fellowship with the living Jesus is.
Today many have the Bible in their hands, but they have not seen the star. Merely to have the Bible in our hands may be a deadening thing, but to see the star is a living experience.
This is unfortunate but true. It could be true of ANY Christian ANYWHERE.
If we do that, the Lord may say, “It may be right for you, but I do not care for it. If you were not so right, I would be with you; but because you are so right, I will go to those who are wrong.” When we insist that we are right and others are wrong, the Lord may leave us and go to the ones who are wrong.
The prophets and Jesus and the Apostle Paul said as much.
The Pharisees claimed to be so fundamental, so sound, and so scriptural; yet it was as if the Lord Jesus said, “All right, you are so sound, but I will have nothing to do with you; I will go to the tax collectors and sinners. I will not only go to see them, but I will feast with them.”
Did you ever meet even an Atheist who postures that he is SO fundamental with the Bible YET he doesn't even believe God is, let alone have fellowship with Jesus.
The book does not leave us hopeless. There is always hope for all who see the situation of their lack of enjoyment of the Spirit of Christ and repent. I need to repent of this kind of matter everyday.
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27 Dec 21
So Witness Lee was in error when he wrote:
"If we follow the wandering stars, eventually our portion will be the same as theirs--the blackness of darkness forever. . . If anyone comes to you without a definite standing and certain course, avoid him. The proper standing is the local church, and the right course is to go on in the Spirit in the local church. Never be a wandering star, and never follow a wandering star."
To be clear, he condemned wandering stars (people who didn't belong to his church) as destined for eternal darkness and blackness.
As I go through the book I'll look for this section, It is rather strong the way you present it. However I know that there was no thought in Witness Lee that no one is saved except those meeting in local churches under his ministry.
He did not even teach that only those under his ministry could meet on the ground of locality - one city / one church.
So I know that what you portray as his thought was not.
If we are for religion, we are through as far as the star is concerned. However, if we are in the genuine local church, praise the Lord, the star is here. So many of us have proved this by our experience: when we were in religion, we simply had the sense of being in darkness, but when the Lord brought us into the local churches, Hallelujah, we saw the star, the brightness of the star. The heavenly star today is in the local churches.
That was my experience. But I had some enjoyment of Christ in the denominations. I spent time in the Presbyterian denomination, Pentecostal COGIC (Church of God In Christ), and AME (African Methodist Episcopal) as well as some charismatic groups. I would never say I had NO enjoyment of Jesus Christ there. I had some.
This paragraph I take therefore on a relative scale.
Now, during the church age, is the time of night. Therefore, we need the shining of the stars. None of the leading ones in the local churches should claim their position; they should not say, “I am one of the elders; you must recognize me.” If they say this, they are in darkness. We need brothers and sisters who shine; we need the shining stars. It is by the shining in today’s darkness that people receive the guidance and are turned from the wrong way to the right way. Anything that is wrong is unrighteousness; whatever is right is righteousness. Those who turn many to righteousness are the stars that shine forever and ever.
That is true across the board. The local churches are not a utopian society. Corinth was a genuine local church in First Corinthians and Second Corinthians. They had plenty of problems and plenty of opportunity to turn to become overcoming Christ enjoyers rather than distracted, side tracked believers.
All things considered, Ghost's splice and dice of selected quotes does no damage to the overall ministry of the truth from Brother Lee.
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Still looking for Ghost's sectioned quoted.
Look here.
If there are believers on this earth who love the divine Word, I believe we should be numbered among them. We love the Word, but not in the way of dead letters. We love the Word by giving heed to it until something within is dawning and rising in our heart—not the knowledge, not the written code, but the breaking through of day, the rising of the shining star.
If there are believers on this earth who love the divine Word, I believe we should be numbered among them.
I don't know about you. But I would take that as acknowledgment that there are Christian believers in the earth who love the divine Word. This doesn't sound sectarian to me. It sounds like if there are such believers surely we in the local churches should be a akin with such.
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Not only the leaders in the local churches but all of us should be stars.
All believers should be "shinning stars."
If we read Revelation 2 and 3 again in this light, we will realize that eventually all those in the local churches should be the stars. What the Lord wrote to the seven messengers was what He wrote to the whole church.
That means what was written to the seven local churches is to be heard by all in the church universal. That is why each letter concludes.
"He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the seven churches."
It is not a matter of teaching, knowledge, title, or position; it is a matter of shining. We need to be the shining stars so that people may find Christ through us. Where is Christ? Come and see. Simply follow the star. And where is the star? Hallelujah, the star is in the local churches.
It certainly should be.
Above he wrote that the living word was the shinning star. Christ and the living word of God cannot separated.
If we deal with the Word livingly and properly, it surely will turn into the living Christ. This is the turning point—the Word needs to be turned into Christ; the written word needs to be turned into the living word. We can never separate Christ from the living word.
Today, therefore, the star comes from the living word. I am so happy that in this verse we have the word and the morning star together.
Brothers and sisters, are we really shining? We need to shine in our homes, on our jobs, in our neighborhoods, in the schools, on the campuses. We do not need to teach people so much, and we do not need to do so much preaching. What we need is the shining. The local churches should be full of shining stars.
This is true. Any believer may receive such an exhortation imo.
Let me illustrate a little more and apply what we have been saying. When you go to certain believers or even to one of the great teachers, in some cases you may sense that they are lacking in clarity and transparency.
Lee didn't say these "great teachers" are not saved.
Lee didn't say "certain believers" are not saved.
The whole thought precludes that there are other believers and great teachers among those not under his ministry.
You may sense that with them there is no window, there is no light, and they are opaque. Those persons may have the knowledge of the Bible, but the more they talk with you, the more you feel imprisoned.
I wouldn't want to have that effect on anyone. So I need to be transparent and living as much as any Christian. I don't see sectarianism in these kinds of exhortations.
In other cases, however, perhaps not frequently, you may come to a little brother, and when he speaks with you, he may simply say, “Hallelujah, praise the Lord!”
It is true. I met such at times. I want to be such. Sometimes I am not though.
We all should want to be filled with the living word and teachers of life when we do.
Nevertheless, by those few words something gets into you. The more he speaks with you, the more you sense that all the clouds have vanished and something is shining. Why? Because this dear little brother is a shining star. There is no tag attached to him, saying, “I am a heavenly star,” but when you meet him, you simply have the sense of shining.
Labels are vain. Do we Christians have the shinning of the Lord's life?
This is good fellowship imo. No apologies needed that a local church should be filled with such believers. Each Christian home, in fact, should have such believers.
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Here now at the end of the book Finding Christ By the Living Star Lee says this to which Ghost objects. The paragraphs are based on what is in Jude as we will see.
WANDERING STARS
There is also a negative aspect to the stars—the wandering stars. Jude 12 and 13 tell us, “These are the hidden reefs in your love feasts, feasting together with you without fear, shepherding themselves; waterless clouds being carried off by winds; autumn trees without fruit, having died twice, rooted up...wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness is kept for eternity.” We should be the stars but not the wandering stars. These are the false leading ones. So many Christians today are not stars; some, however, are stars, but they are wandering stars. There are religious leaders and teachers today who are in this category.
If were no Christians except people meeting in local churches Lee would not say that among Christians there are both stars and wondering stars.
Do you know what a wandering star is? I do not know astronomy, but I can tell you a little. A proper star has a certain position and fixed orbit. It continues in its course steadfastly. However, there are some stars with no fixed position or orbit; they are wandering stars. It seems that some Christians are stars; it seems that they are shining, but their shining is a deception. They are stars, but they are not the steadfast stars. If you follow them, you will be misled; eventually, you will not know where to go. They themselves are wandering: They have no ground; they have no standing; they have no certain way to go on with the Lord. Today they say one thing, and tomorrow they will say something different; they are wandering. We need to be careful. We cannot find Jesus by following a wandering star.
Nothing yet about those not meeting in a local church are not saved.
27 Dec 21
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe man is disgusting, he spoils every thread and needs to be removed from this site.
See folks how sonship spams the thread with 9 consecutive posts to drown out discussion or critique.
I will now alert the mods and make a formal complaint about this ongoing violation of the terms of Service.