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01 Apr 13
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Originally posted by kd2acz"cannot be limited to man's reasoning"
This is an omnipotence paradox and proves nothing except we go around and around in circles. Do you think it is possible that man in all his wisdom does not have it all figured out?
I was merely pointing out that your god cannot exist within a logical framework and that as we need to apply logic in order to survive
Logic to survive?
...[text shortened]... as no boundaries, cannot be captured, and cannot be limited to man's reasoning or imaginations.
Well that takes care of this thread for me.
Originally posted by kd2aczIn lieu of sufficient motivation on my part to re-phrase and reformulate the many arguments I have made over the years that your god
This post was originally posted in another thread (April 1st) by Agerg.
[quote]The real April fools joke (that's been running for the last several thousand years)...
your god doesn't exist...you, your family, your friends, your ancestors, indeed probably more than half the people who have ever lived have wasted a hefty proportion of their lifetime b with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?
(i.e. one of countless derivatives of one particular and logically untenable \"G\"od amongst an infinity of alternatives)
does not exist; given my certainty you will not put up a good fight, I shall instead turn this OP on it's head by affirming that I do have a proof - and that you're not quite ready for it yet.
Prove I do not have such proof!
01 Apr 13
Originally posted by LemonJelloMan... all I am asking is in the OP, I am not interested in dancing.
There's no paradox. The theist answers "No" to the question and there is no problem here for the theist.
If you are looking for arguments to be taken seriously against your theistic belief, the rock question doesn't provide any.
Can you prove there is no God or can't you. I am not weird about saying that I can't prove he does exist, but I know he does, his attributes are everywhere for all to see and I have seen him in action first hand.
I am not looking for an argument against my 'theistic' belief, not looking for an argument against your atheist belief... just your proof he doesn't exist if you have any.
I heard a great line this weekend...
I won't believe it until I see it... when seen
I can't believe my eyes
BYW, The rock question is totally a paradox, quite similar to the 'which came first the chicken or the egg?' question.
Originally posted by kd2aczBYW, The rock question is totally a paradox, quite similar to the 'which came first the chicken or the egg?' question.
Man... all I am asking is in the OP, I am not interested in dancing.
Can you prove there is no God or can't you. I am not weird about saying that I can't prove he does exist, but I know he does, his attributes are everywhere for all to see and I have seen him in action first hand.
I am not looking for an argument against my 'theistic' belief, not looki ly a paradox, quite similar to the 'which came first the chicken or the egg?' question.
The question as to whether an omnipotent god can make a rock so heavy it cannot lift it is no more paradoxical than the question as to whether it can make square circles. As lemonjello points out, no serious challenge to your theism should bring forth that "argument" in the first place.
BTW, a proof is an argument against your theistic belief - indeed that pretty much encapulates the very essence of a proof, i.e. a correct proof of P is a watertight argument against any assertion of ¬P !
and even an incorrect proof is still an argument!
01 Apr 13
Originally posted by AgergThis is not about a good fight, a debate or an argument. I thought I would change it up a little from what I have seen in the many prior threads requiring 'proof of God' by those that adhere to atheism of those who call themselves Christians. The response to the Christian from the atheists is generally ridicule and belittlement, which was why I started this thread in the first place, it was because of your comments. Can't we make points and have opinions and beliefs without such childish behavior as beating another down? Is it not bullying?
In lieu of sufficient motivation on my part to re-phrase and reformulate the many arguments I have made over the years that [b]your goddoes not exist; given my certainty you will not put up a good fight, I shall instead turn this OP on it's head by affirming that I do have a proof - and that you're not quite ready for it yet.
Prove I do not have such proof![/b]
I am curious and wonder about things, that is why I ask questions, it's information gathering.
A question I have, is what makes you (generalizing) think there is no God when it is so obvious to me.
Another is, why are atheists so adamant in a spirituality forum if they don't believe in God or believe there is no God, this is peculiar to me.
Finally, without your answer depending on me... can you prove... there is no God (this is the God of the Bible I am speaking of?
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01 Apr 13
Originally posted by kd2aczBy definition the existence of a being that "cannot be limited to man's reasoning" cannot be proven or disproven using man's reasoning. Your OP is a straw man sham. All we had to do is draw out from you, the straw man argument.
Will you not be addressing the OP then? Can you prove there is no God?
Originally posted by kd2aczThis is not about a good fight, a debate or an argument. I thought I would change it up a little from what I have seen in the many prior threads requiring 'proof of God' by those that adhere to atheism of those who call themselves Christians. The response to the Christian from the atheists is generally ridicule and belittlement, which was why I started this thread in the first place, [b]it was because of your comments. Can't we make points and have opinions and beliefs without such childish behavior as beating another down? Is it not bullying?[/b]
This is not about a good fight, a debate or an argument. I thought I would change it up a little from what I have seen in the many prior threads requiring 'proof of God' by those that adhere to atheism of those who call themselves Christians. The response to the Christian from the atheists is generally ridicule and belittlement, which was why I started this g on me... can you prove... there is no God (this is the God of the Bible I am speaking of?
If you're not willing or unable to put up a good fight (and I know of some theists, some of whom no longer visiting these boards, who do engage in interesting battles), then what exactly do I have to gain by indulging you?
Indeed as you're never going to accept any formal argument against your god so long as you have a hole in your arse (especially since you assert your god is beyond human reason!!!) then such endeavours on my part certainly have no practical merit; and secondly since I've seen and seen-off any counter-arguments I can expect to hear from you (and theists like you), countless numbers of times, then I have little to gain from an intellectual standpoint either!
I am curious and wonder about things, that is why I ask questions, it's information gathering.
A question I have, is what makes you (generalizing) think there is no God when it is so obvious to me.
Another is, why are atheists so adamant in a spirituality forum if they don't believe in God or believe there is no God, this is peculiar to me.
Well for a start, the god you believe exists is thoroughly childish, no subtlety at all with it - knows absolutely everything that can be known, can do absolutely everything that can be done, such that having these two traits is absolutely inconsistent with the world within which we live...how does that grab ya!
As for why I frequent these boards? Sometimes threads come along that are thought provoking; other times I am easily amused
Finally, without your answer depending on me... can you prove... there is no God (this is the God of the Bible I am speaking of?
I think I did!...lemme check... 😕
01 Apr 13
Originally posted by JS357I like how you did that... very clever, I have to disagree with your whole premise however. You are using my statement to shutdown the question of the OP. I don't expect your answer to depend on anything I say or believe, that would be a bit dynamic. God not limited to man's reasoning, thats my belief, I already know you have issues with that, no biggie.
By definition the existence of a being that "cannot be limited to man's reasoning" cannot be proven or disproven using man's reasoning. Your OP is a straw man sham. All we had to do is draw out from you, the straw man argument.
Let's turn back time to a few posts ago, we will pretend I didn't say 'cannot be limited to man's reasoning'.
I would like to ask the question again, fresh, can you prove there is no God? All I am wondering is if your lack of belief in God is substantiated by something, like proof.
Can you prove there is no God?
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01 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by kd2aczAre you saying we can take as a given that the statement that God "cannot be limited to man's reasoning" is untrue, so that if there is no God, that fact can be ascertained using reason?
I like how you did that... very clever, I have to disagree with your whole premise however. You are using my statement to shutdown the question of the OP. I don't expect your answer to depend on anything I say or believe, that would be a bit dynamic. God not limited to man's reasoning, thats my belief, I already know you have issues with that, no biggie.
elief in God is substantiated by something, like proof.
Can you prove there is no God?
Incidentally this is an academic issue for me. I am not one who believed Gos does not exist. I am one who lacks belief God exists. I don't know what might change that so in that sense I am in agreement with you.