Originally posted by kd2aczWe can't prove there is no god any more than you can prove there is. It is a pointless pursuit. From my POV it would be an insane god the bible alleges. This alleged deity has too many human characteristics to be a god. It is clear to me the whole thing is made up by men for men and against women, to control and to build a political power base. Leviticus 27 proves it for me to my satisfaction but religious people have no end to the ability to rationalize, so thoroughly brainwashed they are by thousands of years of relentless dogma.
I like how you did that... very clever, I have to disagree with your whole premise however. You are using my statement to shutdown the question of the OP. I don't expect your answer to depend on anything I say or believe, that would be a bit dynamic. God not limited to man's reasoning, thats my belief, I already know you have issues with that, no biggie.
elief in God is substantiated by something, like proof.
Can you prove there is no God?
For instance the bible tells the time Jesus raises hell in the temple where he finds gambling and so forth. But this god said nothing about the later selling of indulgences by Catholic priests centuries later. Oh, you are going to tell me about free will, right? If so, why did your god go ballistic when encountering commerce in the temple? Why at THAT time and no other? To me it just says man made all over it.
All you have for the prophecies about the coming Christ is self fulfillment, knowing there was a prophecy and deciding it was time for it to come about. That is not fulfilling a prophecy, that is deception of the lowest order.
The concept of 'original sin' is especially heinous, the most filthy concept of the entire sick edifice of christianity. What a way to strike fear and self loathing in children. And adults. Brilliant actually but in no way driven by some god. Or if it was driven by a god, it is an absolutely insane god I would cringe away from if presented to it.
I can't deny the possible existence of a god or gods since we are all just human and have no supernatural aspects, we have just ourselves inside our skin and nothing more.
Another thing that riles me is the assumption we are above all animals and if there is a god who designed us that we could have come about by a god setting things up in such a way we would come about by evolution just as scientists have seen.
Nothing in my mind is more stupid than thinking the world and the entire universe, is something like 6k years old. It is beyond my ability to comprehend how individuals in the 21st century after several hundred years of clear advancement of science, how they can reject ALL of that work when it comes to the idea the universe and the Earth can be older than a few thousand years when all you have to do is look at the moon through a telescope and see the millions of craters there, or look at the ice core data and count the layers that we know comes year by year quite faithfully and we can count back a hundred thousand years or more.
Or how they can claim the grand canyon came from "the" flood and ignoring the fact the layers the so-called flood dug through took millions of years to accumulate. All of that stuff could not possibly have happened in such a short time.
As clear as the nose on your face, yet in their cognitive dissonance, they reject ALL scientific diligent work of the last 200 years yet readily believe in everything else developed by science using the exact same underlying structure of sussing out truth. Only in the area where science refutes such absolute BS as young earthers want to have us believe do they put down the evidence of generations of genius.
Don't confuse me with facts, my (so-called) mind is made up.
01 Apr 13
Originally posted by LemonJelloThere's only one problem with your 'solution,' i.e., providing the atheist
The best way to silence those atheists that request that you provide some evidential considerations and justification for your theistic belief would be to simply provide some compelling, considered argument for your theistic belief. I mean you do have good reasons in virtue of which you believe...right?
The best arguments against your conception of G ...[text shortened]... en why not do some relevant literature research? You can PM me if you'd like some references.
those who are known by their rejection of the thing they have rejected
with refutation of the various arguments: the atheist will not accept any refutation of those arguments.
In fact, these arguments are their membership cards into the club; letting them go means they're no longer in the club, therefore they have a vested interest in hanging on to them as tightly as possible, regardless of the facts.
We know the Bible contradicts itself because we've been saying it forever, and since we've been saying it forever, it must be true.
This is the same weakness espoused by non-thinking Christians, with their blind allegiance to the Bible.
The reality is, each and every supposed argument against the Bible or the character of God whimpers and fails under close scrutiny.
Each and every time.
The problem is, the atheist without an open mind, without an agenda otherwise, cannot see the failure.
01 Apr 13
Originally posted by kd2aczNot much lately, I am being lazy. I have to fix my dual bander, it has an antenna connector problem, an ICOM 726 I think, 2 meters and 440 but I have to 'shudder'🙂 take the case off and solder the connector together. My 706 sits on my ham bench unused at this time also. I need to get the body sections of my car soldered together to complete the faraday shield thing and give me a somewhat better ground and I have to do a battery thing to get some thick cables inside the cab of my car, which I did on my old Voyager but have not done it on my 2011 Accent.
Finally, an answer to the question, thanks Sonhouse.
Been on the radio much?
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by kd2aczSurely the question should be "Prove there are no gods" as obviously
[b]Prove there is no God!
I think with all the certainty that you believe that there is no God, proving it should be easy to do?[/b]
there are almost as many definitions as there are theists.
So - how do we prove there are no gods?
We could take every god that has ever been conceived and try and diprove his
(or her) existance. But then what about gods that have not been conceived by
man? Those that choose to remain hidden, those that just want a quite life.
How do we disprove their existance? In fact are there not an infinite number of
gods that require disproving? And therefore is the job a fool's errand?
That is why the atheist has no belief in a god.
And unlike theists does not say I believe there are no gods.
Theists on the other hand say they believe there are no gods except their own.
Apparently they have proof for the non-existance of the infinite pantheon of
gods and goddesses which man may or may not have thought of.
So theists: show us [b]your[b] proof!
Originally posted by kd2aczLike I said, why don't you try actually doing some research to look for arguments (worth taking seriously) that purport to show that your God concept is not instantiated?
Man... all I am asking is in the OP, I am not interested in dancing.
Can you prove there is no God or can't you. I am not weird about saying that I can't prove he does exist, but I know he does, his attributes are everywhere for all to see and I have seen him in action first hand.
I am not looking for an argument against my 'theistic' belief, not looki ly a paradox, quite similar to the 'which came first the chicken or the egg?' question.
BYW, The rock question is totally a paradox, quite similar to the 'which came first the chicken or the egg?' question.
No it isn't. Seriously, do some frickin' research. If you PM me, I can give you some references to study on the rock question, too.
02 Apr 13
2 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBHNonsense. Give me your attempts at refutation and I will give them a fair reading. Unfortunately, your professed refutations usually fail to make much (or any) sense. Case in point: your failed theodicial attempts in the past to refute the GAFE.
There's only one problem with your 'solution,' i.e., providing the atheist[hidden]those who are known by their rejection of the thing they have rejected[/hidden] with refutation of the various arguments: the atheist will not accept any refutation of those arguments.
In fact, these arguments are their membership cards into the club; letting them go means is, the atheist without an open mind, without an agenda otherwise, cannot see the failure.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59The OP is... prove there is no God. I later clarified this to mean the God of the Bible, not some other god or gods, but the God of the Bible.
Surely the question should be "Prove there are no gods" a... Edit ... existance of the infinite pantheon of
gods and goddesses which man may or may not have thought of.
So theists: show us [b]your[b] proof![/b]
We could take every god that has ever been conceived and try and diprove his
(or her) existance
Only one will suffice, the God of the Bible. Is he not the only God argued for the most part?
So theists: show us your proof!
Again back to the OP, the onus is on you, can you prove there is no God, or can't you? I am speaking of the God of the Bible.
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02 Apr 13
Originally posted by kd2aczCutting in, since you seem to have dismissed me, I don't think the God of the Bible is disprovable, if we include Job 38:2-12 as implying rational premises, they being our inability to know.
The OP is... prove there is no God. I later clarified this to mean the God of the Bible, not some other god or gods, but the God of the Bible.We could take every god that has ever been conceived and try and diprove his
(or her) existance
Only one will suffice, the God of the Bible. Is he not the only God argued for the most part?
[quo ...[text shortened]... is on you, can you prove there is no God, or can't you? I am speaking of the God of the Bible.
Job 38:2-12 (Good News Translation)
2 Who are you to question my wisdom with your ignorant, empty words? 3 Now stand up straight and answer the questions I ask you. 4 Were you there when I made the world? If you know so much, tell me about it. 5 Who decided how large it would be? Who stretched the measuring line over it? Do you know all the answers? 6 What holds up the pillars that support the earth? Who laid the cornerstone of the world? 7 In the dawn of that day the stars sang together, and the heavenly beings shouted for joy. 8 Who closed the gates to hold back the sea when it burst from the womb of the earth? 9 It was I who covered the sea with clouds and wrapped it in darkness. 10 I marked a boundary for the sea and kept it behind bolted gates. 11 I told it, "So far and no farther! Here your powerful waves must stop." 12 Job, have you ever in all your life commanded a day to dawn?
Originally posted by kd2aczI think you are mishandling the responses to your own OP.
Can you answer the OP? Can you prove there is no God?
For example, people are asking things like:
"Can you prove the non-existence of Thor or Horus or Apollo?" and "Do you believe any gods other than this one exist? If not, why not? Maybe we can see if the same reasons apply to this god."
You appear to be trying to brush these aside as if they are attempts to avoid the discussion you are trying to stage.
I suggest you see them as an opportunity to frame the debate the way you want it to be framed.
Why not take one of Thor or Horus or Apollo [for instance] and prove that he does not exist: lay it out, 3, 4 or 5 key points in your proof that they do not exist. Then, "Agerg and atheists" can see what kind of proof you are looking for, and perhaps model their point by point proof on yours, at least in terms of approach.
You should use these requests for you to demonstrate how you would go about disproving a god's existence other than "the God of the Bible" as an opportunity to guide "Agerg and atheists" towards providing the kind of proof you are looking for and the kind of proof you might be inclined to accept.
Originally posted by FMFWord. This effectively exposes kd2acz's intellectual hypocrisy. kd2acz also hasn't bothered to PM me for any references relevant to his/her inquiry, although I offered a couple times. This also speaks to his/her disingenuity.
I think you are mishandling the responses to your own OP.
For example, people are asking things like:
[b]"Can you prove the non-existence of Thor or Horus or Apollo?" and "Do you believe any gods other than this one exist? If not, why not? Maybe we can see if the same reasons apply to this god."
You appear to be trying to brush these aside as d of proof you are looking for and the kind of proof you might be inclined to accept.[/b]
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by LemonJelloAre you really whining because I have not PM'ed you? No disrespect, but I think you need to get out more! 🙄
... [text shortened]... kd2acz also hasn't bothered to PM me for any references relevant to his/her inquiry, although I offered a couple times. This also speaks to his/her disingenuity.