03 May 10
1 edit
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIn the first place, don't be presumptuous, and in the second, clearly I'm not -- and nor were the Greeks, as this reference to Theodorus the Atheist will illustrate:
You're confusing the terms. Early Christians were called godless, as well. Are you lumping your atheism in with theirs?
Theodorus ( c. 340-c. 250 BCE[1]) the Atheist, of Cyrene, was a philosopher of the Cyrenaic school. He lived in both Greece and Alexandria, before ending his days in his native city of Cyrene. As a Cyrenaic philosopher, he taught that the goal of life was to obtain joy and avoid grief, and that the former resulted from knowledge, and the latter from ignorance. But his principal claim to fame was his alleged atheism. He was usually designated by ancient writers Atheus (Greek: ho atheos), the Atheist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist
Add to the list Democritus, Epicurus, Leucippus ...
03 May 10
Originally posted by Bosse de NageEternal Being or Reality doesn't dovetail with Deity.
Eternal Being or Reality doesn't dovetail with Deity.
I humbly place my Googling Skillz at your service:
"Through the ages, Jain philosophers have adamantly rejected and opposed the concept of creator and omnipotent God and this has resulted in Jainism being labeled as nastika darsana or atheist philosophy by the rival religious philosophies. Th ...[text shortened]... without the idea of a creator god."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism_and_non-creationism
Are you high?
What is God if not the Eternal Being, the source of reality?
Jainism works from the position that no personal god exists. The remaining tenets coincide with Hindu thought.
03 May 10
Originally posted by Bosse de NageIn the first place, don't be presumptuous...
In the first place, don't be presumptuous, and in the second, clearly I'm not -- and nor were the Greeks, as this reference to Theodorus the Atheist will illustrate:
Theodorus ( c. 340-c. 250 BCE[1]) the Atheist, of Cyrene, was a philosopher of the Cyrenaic school. He lived in both Greece and Alexandria, before ending his days in his native c ...[text shortened]... ikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist
Add to the list Democritus, Epicurus, Leucippus ...
That nearly sounds like you think I got what you clearly said wrong. Do tell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist
Read much? Or just enough to support your entrenched thinking?
Theodorus was attacked for atheism. "He did away with all opinions respecting the Gods," says Laërtius, but some critics doubt whether he was absolutely an atheist, or simply denied the existence of the deities of popular belief. The charge of atheism is sustained by the popular designation of Atheus, by the authority of Cicero, Laërtius, Pseudo-Plutarch, Sextus Empiricus, and some Christian writers; while some others (e.g. Clement of Alexandria) speak of him as only rejecting the popular theology.
03 May 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHGrammar time: Compare 'Eternal Being' and 'the Eternal Being'. Yes, there is a difference.
[b]Eternal Being or Reality doesn't dovetail with Deity.
Are you high?
What is God if not the Eternal Being, the source of reality?
Jainism works from the position that no personal god exists. The remaining tenets coincide with Hindu thought.[/b]
-- And that is why Jainism is labelled 'atheist' by philosophies that -- believe in god(s).
03 May 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHMy entrenched thinking -- that 'atheos' meant 'atheist', 'someone who doesn't believe in god(s)'?
[b]In the first place, don't be presumptuous...
That nearly sounds like you think I got what you clearly said wrong. Do tell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodorus_the_Atheist
Read much? Or just enough to support your entrenched thinking?
Theodorus was attacked for atheism. "He did away with all opinions respecting the Gods," says ...[text shortened]... others (e.g. Clement of Alexandria) speak of him as only rejecting the popular theology.[/b]
'The charge of atheism is sustained by the popular designation of Atheus.'
That means that 'atheus' was commonly held to mean what I take it to mean as well. Theodorus' actual views are beside the point.
Incidentally, what was your point in mentioning that 'atheist' is a C16 coinage (in English)? Don't hold back those pearls.
03 May 10
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe crime of not believing in the gods of the state was the intended and purposed meaning behind the term in the first place. The idea of not believing in any god at all wasn't even something that could be conceptualized because it didn't register with reason.
My entrenched thinking -- that 'atheos' meant 'atheist', 'someone who doesn't believe in god(s)'?
'The charge of atheism is sustained by the popular designation of Atheus.'
That means that 'atheus' was commonly held to mean what I take it to mean as well. Theodorus' actual views are beside the point.
Incidentally, what was your point in ...[text shortened]... oning that 'atheist' is a C16 coinage (in English)? Don't hold back those pearls.
What is called atheism today--- the reaction to theism--- is a recent event. The failed attempts to point out examples-that-aren't-really-examples-when-you-actually-look-at-them notwithstanding, today's atheism isn't a rejection of the state's god(s) as much as a comment on the supposed similarity between God and Santa Claus.
You attempted to equate Theodorus as an atheist of today's fabric, when closer examination of both the general criticism of his teachings (He did away with all opinions respecting the Gods) as well as his actual views reveal him at odds with the same.
03 May 10
1 edit
Originally posted by FreakyKBHPlease, Freaky. It was by the use of reason that the first atheists came to hold the views they did!
The crime of not believing in the gods of the state was the intended and purposed meaning behind the term in the first place. The idea of not believing in any god at all wasn't even something that could be conceptualized because it didn't register with reason.
What is called atheism today--- the reaction to theism--- is a recent event. The failed atte inions respecting the Gods) as well as his actual views reveal him at odds with the same.
Diagoras, the 'first atheist', according to Cicero, certainly qualifies by today's standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagoras_of_Melos
It's trite to maintain that ancient Greek atheists were different from modern atheists -- of course they were -- yet in both cases you have people moving from the 'default position', as you call it, towards, perhaps, enlightenment.
Why did Plato abhor Democritus and wish to burn all his books?
The Carvaka School of Hindu philosophy was decidedly materialist.
But you seem to attach some special significance to modern Western 'anti-monotheistic' atheism. Why is that so?
03 May 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIn other words you cannot. Or are those really civilizations?
Well, I can think of two.
Heaven
Hell
But I am sure that by now you realize that your argument that Theism being the default position is not supported by the claim that I cannot list a civilization that I know did not contain a theist.