Spirituality
24 Jul 08
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI agree. But is one who lives a life committed to truth,love, compassion , justice damned because they cannot 100% overcome sin and still make mistakes???
Looking at the teachings of Jesus, it seems that one is to live a life of truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc. In fact to be the essence of truth, love, humility, compassion, justice, etc.
"Praise" is what is offered as a substitute in an attempt to curry favor with God.
What does Jesus value most - perfection or love?
27 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by buckkyIf you read the ordinances about worship in the book of Deutoronomy you will see that it really was a feast or feasts.
What are the known reason's for God needing, and demanding worship. It seems sort of odd that the creator of the universe would desire worship. That appears to be more of a human trait than a God like one.
The worshippers came together and feasted. So the celebration and feasting of people was an intergral part of the worship of God.
You have to update your concept of worship of God to mean that a delicious collective dinner and celebration where both God and man are satisfied is the worship ordained by God.
27 Jul 08
The first man created was Adam. His wife was Eve. We see no direction from God concerning worship. What we see is God putting them before the tree of life. He only warns them concerning what to eat and not eat.
This tree of life represents God Himself in His rich eternal life. The worship ordained from man was really simply feasting and eating the life of God. To take God in, to injest God, to have God imparted into man's being, to receive God internally - this was the only worship originally ordained by God.
There were no instructions except to beware what to take into one's being.
God today is in a receivable form. He is in a form of life giving Spirit in which man can receive Him, "drink" Him, "eat" Him. As long as a person is allowing God to dispense His Spirit into man's being this is the worship of God.
When people come together and corporated receive the Triune God through praising, singing, prayer, speaking, prophsesying, procaliming, and speaking forth on behalf of God man's spiritual hunger is being fed and God is being exalted. This is worship
The feasts were times of worship in the OT. Worship again symbolized by eating and feasting. This points to God dispensing His life into man.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou keep trying to couch it in terms of "perfection". Like I keep telling you, it's not about "perfection". It's about getting your heart right. If you truly love Jesus, you will follow His commandments.
I agree. But is one who lives a life committed to truth,love, compassion , justice damned because they cannot 100% overcome sin and still make mistakes???
What does Jesus value most - perfection or love?
John 14:21-24
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me...He that loveth me not keepeth not my words"
27 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI simply ask how you interpret this scripture and incorporate it into your theology. You do not have to answer if you do not wish.
In your mind, this indicates that "praise" is what Jesus seeks? You choose to infer that from that verse? I guess desperation clouds the judgement of many.
Luke 6:46
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"
John 14:21
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me"
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
I in no way think that worship is a requirement for salvation. After all, the man that died next to Christ never seemed to worship him but was granted eternal life soley based upon his faith in him. He was just a common criminal who reached out to him in faith.
27 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by whodeyDo you really need me to explicitly state it? I don't see that verse as indicating that Jesus seeks praise.
I simply ask how you interpret this scripture and incorporate it into your theology. You do not have to answer if you do not wish.
I in no way think that worship is a requirement for salvation. After all, the man that died next to Christ never seemed to worship him but was granted eternal life soley based upon his faith in him. He was just a common criminal who reached out to him in faith.
BTW, your backpedalling skills need work. Better yet, just be honest 🙂
You might also want to consider that the idea that the thief "was granted eternal life soley based upon his faith in him" is purely an assumption on your part. You might want to look at the idea that the thief had truly repented and had transformed his heart.
01 Aug 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou might want to look at the idea that the thief had truly repented and had transformed his heart. ---ToO----
Do you really need me to explicitly state it? I don't see that verse as indicating that Jesus seeks praise.
BTW, your backpedalling skills need work. Better yet, just be honest 🙂
You might also want to consider that the idea that the thief "was granted eternal life soley based upon his faith in him" is purely an assumption on your part. You might want to look at the idea that the thief had truly repented and had transformed his heart.
Transformed his heart ? I thought that was Jesus' job , or maybe we just don't need him?
In any case there is no evidence that this happened at that point , what we DO know is that he chose to believe.
01 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou keep trying to couch it in terms of "perfection". Like I keep telling you, it's not about "perfection". It's about getting your heart right. If you truly love Jesus, you will follow His commandments. ---------ToO--------------
You keep trying to couch it in terms of "perfection". Like I keep telling you, it's not about "perfection". It's about getting your heart right. If you truly love Jesus, you will follow His commandments.
John 14:21-24
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me...He that loveth me not keepeth not my words"
Perfectly with no mistakes?
I think it's ALL about perfection from what I see of your posts. There is no room for less than 100%.
Cannot a man's heart be 99% right?
01 Aug 08
3 edits
Originally posted by knightmeisterJesus doesn't say why He said what He did.
You might want to look at the idea that the thief had truly repented and had transformed his heart. ---ToO----
Transformed his heart ? I thought that was Jesus' job , or maybe we just don't need him?
In any case there is no evidence that this happened at that point , what we DO know is that he chose to believe.
Luke 23:40-43
But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
If the only criteria is proclaiming "belief" in Jesus, then why does Jesus say the following:
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
Jesus explicitly states that not everyone who calls him "Lord" will enter heaven. Evidently it take more than "proclaiming belief". What might it take? Jesus goes on to explicitly state that only those who do the will of God will enter heaven. Jesus also explictly tells those who commit acts of sin to depart from Him. In case there's any question, acts of sin go against the will of God. It all ties out.
01 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeister"Cannot a man's heart be 99% right?"
You keep trying to couch it in terms of "perfection". Like I keep telling you, it's not about "perfection". It's about getting your heart right. If you truly love Jesus, you will follow His commandments. ---------ToO--------------
Perfectly with no mistakes?
I think it's ALL about perfection from what I see of your posts. There is no room for less than 100%.
Cannot a man's heart be 99% right?
Not according to of Jesus.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever;"