God Bless America?

Originally posted by googlefudge
The fact that other people have shared/do share your view doesn't make it right, and is not evidence
that it is right.

When asked to provide evidence for a position you are not answering the question if you simply say
"hey look! here are some other people who say the same thing".

At least I am not to be counted a buffoon for thinking so, as many here seem to have insinuated.

Only a non-American would dare call George Washington and Abraham Lincoln "some other people who say the same thing". Their opinions certainly hold weight for Americans, if not other supposedly sapient individuals.

Originally posted by Suzianne
At least I am not to be counted a buffoon for thinking so, as many here seem to have insinuated.

Only a non-American would dare call George Washington and Abraham Lincoln "some other people who say the same thing". Their opinions certainly hold weight for Americans, if not other supposedly sapient individuals.

I'm sorry... You seem to be suggesting that the view of a politician talking about their country
in a national address is evidence for the awesomeness of that country...

Because if that's the case I have an awesome selection of similar quotes by British politicians and
monarchs describing Great Britain that will blow anything you've got out of the water.


And yes you are to be counted as a buffoon for thinking so.

Seriously, go learn some history.

Originally posted by googlefudge
You meant IF the Antichrist ...

Because otherwise you are making a fact knowledge claim without evidence to justify it...
In other words lying.

And no might does not make right... something you should remember when talking about your god.

No, I meant "when".

Clearly we have a difference of opinion.

If I cannot provide evidence to a blind man that the sky is indeed "blue", that does not mean I am lying. I know you won't apologize for the comment, since in your twisted mind you actually think it's true, but still, a suggestion to "mind your manners" might not be entirely irrelevant.



And where, in the entire volume of stuff I've written on this website, in this forum or not, do you think I believe that "might makes right"? God is right because He is God, a being of ultimate love and justice, not merely because He is mighty.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, I meant "when".

Clearly we have a difference of opinion.

If I cannot provide evidence to a blind man that the sky is indeed "blue", that does not mean I am lying. I know you won't apologize for the comment, since in your twisted mind you actually think it's true, but still, a suggestion to "mind your manners" might not be entirely irrelevant.

...[text shortened]... use He is God, a being of ultimate love and justice, not merely because He is mighty.

No we have a difference of fact.

Your god doesn't exist.
Neither does the antichrist.
And you have absolutely no evidence that any of what you are claim is true.

You thus CANNOT know that what you say is true.

Claiming that it is true is thus simply lying.


Knowledge must be provable.

And no I am not going to apologise for pointing out that you are lying, or take manners
lessons for someone who thinks I deserve to be executed by your abomination of an imaginary friend.

If I cannot provide evidence to a blind man that the sky is indeed...

You have no evidence!

You are quite proud of that fact.

If you had evidence sufficient I would change my mind.

You cannot provide evidence because you have none.

And where, in the entire volume of stuff I've written on this website, in this forum or not, do you think
I believe that "might makes right"? God is right because He is God, a being of ultimate love and justice, not
merely because He is mighty.

By what standards are you measuring god's "ultimate love and justice" by?

What evidence do you have of god's nature that you can judge by those standards?

And why does god have any authority to impose his will on us other than that fact that he is (according to you) mighty
and we can't stop him?



I didn't sign up to being under god's rule, where can I sign to opt out?

Because if there is no option then your religion and your god is nothing BUT might makes right.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I'm sorry... You seem to be suggesting that the view of a politician talking about their country
in a national address is evidence for the awesomeness of that country...

Because if that's the case I have an awesome selection of similar quotes by British politicians and
monarchs describing Great Britain that will blow anything you've got out of the ...[text shortened]... yes you are to be counted as a buffoon for thinking so.

Seriously, go learn some history.

Again, back to the "nationalism" pot we go.

Yes, I understand all you Brits think your nation is the cat's pjs, etc, etc, etc.

I agree that Winston Churchill was a great orator. His speeches about the Battle of Britain and other aspects of Britain's fight in the war are breath-taking. I'm sure most Britons would call holding a view of Britain that was also held by Winston Churchill a compliment, at the very least.

I'm thinking that a similar respect for the likes of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln in America would not be out of the question, even for a dyed-in-the-wool nationalist Brit.

Calling me a buffoon for agreeing with Washington and Lincoln and then espousing the awesomeness of British speakers like Churchill seems self-serving, at best.

And I am well at home with American History, doubtless more so than any European. I do not know your reasons for continually insulting me and my schooling in this forum, but I do suspect it has more to do with your disagreement/hatred of my religion (including your hilarious assertion that Christians are "dangerous" ) than any supposed "proof" of the inadequacy of my education you may think you are privy to.

Seriously, go learn some manners.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Again, back to the "nationalism" pot we go.

Yes, I understand all you Brits think your nation is the cat's pjs, etc, etc, etc.

I agree that Winston Churchill was a great orator. His speeches about the Battle of Britain and other aspects of Britain's fight in the war are breath-taking. I'm sure most Britons would call holding a view of Britain that w ...[text shortened]... y of my education you may think you are privy to.

Seriously, go learn some manners.

Man are you dense today.

My point which I thought was blindingly obvious is that you can't take the great speeches of politicians
in national addresses as evidence for a countries awesomeness because politicians are almost always
talking their nation up, declaring it to be blessed or ordained by some god or other, glossing over the
bad bits, bigging things up, applying spin...

Perhaps I should have used the Stalinist Russia or China or Korea as my example.

I am not the one claiming my country is the most awesomist in all the world and was blessed by god.

I am pointing out that claims like that have been made about just about every country on the planet at
various points in history. And that the USA is no different and has no better claim than any other in this
regard.

Your country has plenty to be proud of and lots of achievement's.

But when Americans start ignorantly claiming their countries unrivalled superiority over everyone else at everything
under the sun then they are inviting people to point out all the ways that isn't true.


I am not a huge nationalist. You are.


Plus where did I mention Churchill?



And my scorn at your education is your repeated demonstrations of ignorance of reality.


And again, not taking lessons in manners from someone who thinks I should be executed.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I didn't sign up to being under god's rule, where can I sign to opt out?

You already have, no worries there.




(My answer to all the ranting and raving I've snipped out, since it's just exactly like trying to teach a pig to sing. It only wastes your time and it annoys the pig.)

Originally posted by Suzianne
You already have, no worries there.




(My answer to all the ranting and raving I've snipped out, since it's just exactly like trying to teach a pig to sing. It only wastes your time and it annoys the pig.)

Yeah and you think you can teach me manners.

You think I should be executed.

You call me a blind-man.

And now a pig.


Pot Kettle Black.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Yeah and you think you can teach me manners.

You think I should be executed.

You call me a blind-man.

And now a pig.


Pot Kettle Black.

No, posting something several times in as many posts doesn't make it fact.

No, I do not think you should be executed. Putting it that way only demonstrates that you clearly do not have a grip on what I do believe, even though I've related it more than a few times in this forum. "Excuted" is clearly not the right word. As usual, you choose wording like this to develop an emotional response. I'll leave it as an exercise to determine exactly what I did say, since I've said it in this forum more than enough times to recollect, if you can only drop your efforts to inject emotion into it. I don't believe I've ever used the word "executed" or "killed" or even "done away with" to describe what WILL happen to you based on your refusal of God, much less what I think SHOULD be done with you. Curiously, on the other hand, I have used those exact words to describe what I expect will happen to me during the Tribulation, after the AntiChrist reveals himself. Interesting that you should transpose the two ideas.

I admit to calling you a blind man. How else would I describe one who would not only not see God, but refuse to, even though he could if he wanted to? Your own John Heywood said it best, in Dialogues of Proverbs in 1546:

"Who is so deafe, or so blynde, as is hee,
That wilfully will nother here nor see."

And yes, a pig. You should excuse me for my frustration at being called worse than any of these. You have to admit, though, that I showed more than a mere modicum of manners by insulting you allegorically, instead of directly. Maybe I do have an education.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Again, back to the "nationalism" pot we go.

Yes, I understand all you Brits think your nation is the cat's pjs, etc, etc, etc.

I agree that Winston Churchill was a great orator. His speeches about the Battle of Britain and other aspects of Britain's fight in the war are breath-taking. I'm sure most Britons would call holding a view of Britain that w y of my education you may think you are privy to.

Seriously, go learn some manners.

'Yes, I understand all you Brits think your nation is the cat's pjs, etc, etc, etc.'


you seem to have totally misunderstood the national psyche of britain. i reckon in america the only brits you must see on tv are the royals and their flag waving camp followers. we are more monty python and guy fawkes than mary poppins and churchill.

(blimey it was hard choosing who to compare the list was so big!!!)

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]'Yes, I understand all you Brits think your nation is the cat's pjs, etc, etc, etc.'


you seem to have totally misunderstood the national psyche of britain. i reckon in america the only brits you must see on tv are the royals and their flag waving camp followers. we are more monty python and guy fawkes than mary poppins and churchill.

(blimey it was hard choosing who to compare the list was so big!!!)[/b]

I like Mr. Bean. That is a real Brit. 😏

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]'Yes, I understand all you Brits think your nation is the cat's pjs, etc, etc, etc.'


you seem to have totally misunderstood the national psyche of britain. i reckon in america the only brits you must see on tv are the royals and their flag waving camp followers. we are more monty python and guy fawkes than mary poppins and churchill.

(blimey it was hard choosing who to compare the list was so big!!!)[/b]

Actually, no.

I'm getting quite a good example of the "national psyche" of Britain by listening to all the Brits yammering away on this website, to be honest.

Also, I'm not at all like most Americans. I don't get my opinion of those in other countries by watching TV.

(blimey it was hard choosing who to compare the list was so big!!!)

Ok, this was funny, I actually lol'ed.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Actually, no.

I'm getting quite a good example of the "national psyche" of Britain by listening to all the Brits yammering away on this website, to be honest.

Also, I'm not at all like most Americans. I don't get my opinion of those in other countries by watching TV.

(blimey it was hard choosing who to compare the list was so big!!!)

Ok, this was funny, I actually lol'ed.

we could stop yammering and leave you with rj.....how does that sound?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I like Mr. Bean. That is a real Brit. 😏

I really wish I could see Rowan Atkinson in another venue than just "Mr. Bean". I know he's not like that in RL, but it's hard not to see him as "just some dork" after seeing that show. I mean it's funny as hell, but I'd like to see him in another context.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
we could stop yammering and leave you with rj.....how does that sound?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!