29 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendLet's say you were hit from behind by some blunt object, and fell headlong into a nearby lake. By the time you recover and swim to shore, there is absolutely nobody around. You've definitely experienced being knocked into the lake, so it would be a pity not to build on this unique, firsthand experience. Let's start with the basics. Who hit you?
So you're saying that it's unreasonable to believe in the things I've experienced first hand.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemI guess I don't see how that shows my faith to be illogical.
The problem is, if things don't turn out the way you want them to, or expect them to, it is too easy to claim that you simply misread God's will, or that God never willed it in the first place. God is given credit for being right by default, and you will adjust your view of outside circumstances such that God remains always in the right. If you did not, your entire belief system would collapse.
My faith is in God's promises. One of those promises is that He has my best interest in mind. So, because of my faith in that promise, yes, if my prayers don't get answered I assume there's a good and valid reason for it, even though I don't know what that reason is. In short, I rely on my faith in God's promise. Since my life has gotten nothing but better in the 11 years since I've been serious about God, I don't see how taking that stance is illogical.
DF
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou are obviously Biblically ignorant. Jesus stated that the only way for Man to come to him on His terms is to be as children....innocent. The only way for one to be innocent is to repent his/her sins. Jesus didn't say we had to write a thesis on Pythagorus' thesis
If God exists and he is an inclusive God then there must be a way of coming to faith without having to have a theology/philosophy degree. If it really did require extensive and complex debate (like that which we see on this forum) then what happens to those who have limited intellectual understanding like children or those with learning difficulties . ...[text shortened]... iliation of intellect. God is an equal opportunities employer, let's get used to it.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemIs it really?
Your statement, "...my [b]faith is based on logic..." is self-contradictory. Faith is the firm belief in something for which there is no proof.[/b]
Do we have any PROOF that gravity will not suddenly stop tomorrow?
Therefore we have FAITH that it will still work tomorrow. Why? Because that is what REASON tells us should happen. Surely faith is not by definition irrational? It might be able to exist independent of reason, but how can you say that anything that is reasonable is therefore not faith?
Lets assume the story of Peter walking on the water is real: He is standing in the boat with faith that he could walk on the water. Sure enough he DOES walk on the water. Now there is evidence, so it is no longer faith. So now we have an explanation of why he started to sink. He had proof and, using your definition, it was no longer faith. Being on the water without faith he sinks.
I think you can have a Faith based on Reason. Not so sure you can then say the entire system you build on that faith is then necessarily Reasonable though... I think the key word here is "based"
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendBlind, unreasoning faith.
So you're saying that it's unreasonable to believe in the things I've experienced first hand. Only a fool denies what he himself has experienced to be true. I have no more faith in the existance of God than I do of my own. I know God to exist. My faith is in the promises of God and in His plan for the future.
Why do I think my faith is rational? Becau ...[text shortened]... f His word. So I rightly conclude that He will keep His promises, and such is my faith.
DF
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by chancremechanicYou think I'm an Atheist? I was asking this question rhetorically , not literally. Of course I know this , that's why I was asking the question!!!!
You are obviously Biblically ignorant. Jesus stated that the only way for Man to come to him on His terms is to be as children....innocent. The only way for one to be innocent is to repent his/her sins. Jesus didn't say we had to write a thesis on Pythagorus' thesis
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by chancremechanicNot exactly. "Repent" means to change ones mind, specifically related to what one thinks of Jesus Christ.
You are obviously Biblically ignorant. Jesus stated that the only way for Man to come to him on His terms is to be as children....innocent. The only way for one to be innocent is to repent his/her sins. Jesus didn't say we had to write a thesis on Pythagorus' thesis
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendIt is not necessarily illogical, but neither is it based on logic.
I guess I don't see how that shows my faith to be illogical.
My faith is in God's promises. One of those promises is that He has my best interest in mind. So, because of my faith in that promise, yes, if my prayers don't get answered I assume there's a good and valid reason for it, even though I don't know what that reason is. In short, I rely on my fa ...[text shortened]... ince I've been serious about God, I don't see how taking that stance is illogical.
DF
Would you mind sharing some specifics about how your life has improved since adopting faith?
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by JadeMantisWrong! Your definition of 'faith' is incorrect. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, faith is firm belief in something for which there is no proof (www.m-w.com). Gravity, or the existence of it, is not a matter of faith. We know it exists.
Is it really?
Do we have any PROOF that gravity will not suddenly stop tomorrow?
Therefore we have FAITH that it will still work tomorrow.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI knew I'd have to do it eventually. Here's the full definition (www.m-w.com)
Faith is both what is believed and belief itself. There is a distinction.
Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
Notice how God and religion keep popping up again and again. The word is best used to describe a belief or loyalty to one or both of the above.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemGot anything deeper than Latin?
I knew I'd have to do it eventually. Here's the full definition (www.m-w.com)
Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty o ...[text shortened]... again. The word is best used to describe a belief or loyalty to one or both of the above.
Notice the second and third definitions? Crazy, huh.
30 Mar 06
2 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBHOnly a kook would ask for a 'deeper' dictionary definition. 🙄🙄
Got anything deeper than Latin?
Notice the second and third definitions? Crazy, huh.
Edit: Why use a word like 'faith' to describe a 'belief' in something that is known? Answer: to create the illusion that believing in something mythical or metaphysical is no different than believing a principle or law of nature that is real, repeatable, and proven.