27 Feb 13
Originally posted by karoly aczelI think you are looking at this all wrong than! What works, whatever that means
Why bother? Because it's something close to my heart.
And I dont reject it out of hand. I just look at it different from you and it seems to make you uncomfortable, whereas I'm happy as Larry with whatever views people hold, because as we both know, no one has to believe in "God" for It to exist - if it works, then it works. Apparently Christianity wor ...[text shortened]... w remaining follies. As Frank Zappas album so nicely put it "One size does not fit all"
if it isn't the reality or truth...who cares if its right a lot of the time, or some of
the time, or works better for him than her on a Monday, and better for her than
him on Thursdays? If God created, God gives us life, God is warning us about a
coming judgment, does it matter that some people are happy in their lives
even though they are about to die in their sins?
Kelly
27 Feb 13
Originally posted by KellyJayHe may not lie, but boy oh boy is he vague ! The bible has thrown up so many conflicting religions and beliefs ,it's like a war zone! Are you sure the atheistic approach isn't a more peaceful way of living together?
God is limited by His nature, for example He will not lie. So I don't have one
issue with God giving us choices and we are the one's making them.
Kelly
Originally posted by OdBodI don't think God is vague, you are quite right about there being conflicts;
He may not lie, but boy oh boy is he vague ! The bible has thrown up so many conflicting religions and beliefs ,it's like a war zone! Are you sure the atheistic approach isn't a more peaceful way of living together?
however, that isn't because of God in my opinion, but man and Satan.
Kelly
28 Feb 13
Originally posted by KellyJayThere in lies the problem, convince a person it is the will of god and you can get them to do anything!.
I don't think God is vague, you are quite right about there being conflicts;
however, that isn't because of God in my opinion, but man and Satan.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayWe are just talking past each other a bit too much.
I think you are looking at this all wrong than! What works, whatever that means
if it isn't the reality or truth...who cares if its right a lot of the time, or some of
the time, or works better for him than her on a Monday, and better for her than
him on Thursdays? If God created, God gives us life, God is warning us about a
coming judgment, does it mat ...[text shortened]... t some people are happy in their lives
even though they are about to die in their sins?
Kelly
When you say "God" you mean the words of the bible, right? Not an actual "God-experience" that leads to others beliefs about "God",(like mine), not the dead words in an old book.
I am trying to convey as best as possible what I mean by my faith, but it seems our lingistical difficulties are insurmountable, so I will bow out and perhaps take it up again on another occasion 🙂
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm painting it as I see it Kelly. I find it bizarre when Christians use terms like 'grace', 'mercy' and 'gift', when really the offer is nothing more than an ultimatum based on a threat of violence.
You are hell bent on painting this as bad as you can, pun intended.
It is a warning, sin brings death...the wages of sin is death, this is how you
are freed from that. Avoid the forgiveness die in your sins.
Kelly
28 Feb 13
Originally posted by Proper KnobI use grace, mercy, and gift, because I believe that is what I'm getting.
I'm painting it as I see it Kelly. I find it bizarre when Christians use terms like 'grace', 'mercy' and 'gift', when really the offer is nothing more than an ultimatum based on a threat of violence.
I do not see it your way.
Kelly
28 Feb 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper KnobIts really quite simple. Its a question of whether or not the violence is chosen as a punishment for the action, or is simply a fact prior to the warning.
'Do as I say or I will kill you', how is that not an ultimatum?
If you say "do as I say or you will get run over by a car", then that is not an ultimatum.
So, Christians see death as a result of sin not as a punishment for sin chosen by God as a threat, but rather as something that must happen, a fact of the universe, and God is merely warning you about crossing that road.
You are assuming that God has a choice in the matter and that the death is a form of punishment chosen by him.
However I think Christians are frequently unclear on the distinction and usually portray it as a punishment. But then most Christians have a somewhat bizarre concept of the purpose of punishment and justice.
28 Feb 13
Originally posted by Proper KnobYour death comes about due to sin, the end of sin is a death that lasts forever.
'Do as I say or I will kill you', how is that not an ultimatum?
In God there is life, as a matter of fact He is the only place where you'll get life.
So if you reject the source of life you grasp nothing but death, it isn't that He has
to kill you, you choose it.
Kelly
28 Feb 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhat???
You are assuming that God has a choice in the matter and that the death is a form of punishment chosen by him.
So god is just warning us of something he cannot control?
So you do not believe in an omnipotent god?
(Actually far more reasonable if you ask me.)
01 Mar 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59God warns us about danger, that is a measure of control, our listening that is
What???
So god is just warning us of something he cannot control?
So you do not believe in an omnipotent god?
(Actually far more reasonable if you ask me.)
us doing what we will no matter what.
Kelly