God is....

Originally posted by sonship

In fact, one could easily interpret all the claims of a single 'God' as being a claim of superiority rather than a claim that other gods do not exist.

This is deceptively misleading.

Depends on what you are willing to label as a god I suppose. Some people wouldn't even label one of the gods that have been hanging around since prehistory as god, others seem happy to bestow the label on oafs who can kick a ball about.

Originally posted by sonship
This is deceptively misleading.

Read the verses yourself. It is clear that in some the meaning intended is 'I have no equal', rather than 'there are no other gods'. Meanwhile other verses clearly mention other gods, frequently saying God is above them. In fact, I can't find a single verse where it unequivocally states that there are no other gods. Can you?

Originally posted by Kepler
Depends on what you are willing to label as a god I suppose. Some people wouldn't even label one of the gods that have been hanging around since prehistory as god, others seem happy to bestow the label on oafs who can kick a ball about.

Depends on what you are willing to label as a god I suppose.

The post was in reference to the Bible. The Bible is not ambiguous about who God is.

The "depending" you are talking about seems to be related to closing the Bible and letting the imagination run free in total disregard to what the Bible tells us.

Some people wouldn't even label one of the gods that have been hanging around since prehistory as god, others seem happy to bestow the label on oafs who can kick a ball about.

The post was in reference to the Bible.

Here are a few passages which make the matter not as ambiguous as you imagine it is:

"I am Jehovah and there is no one else; Besides Me there is no God ..." (Isaiah 45:5)

"Was it not I, Jehovah? And there is no other God besides Me; A righteous God and a Savior. And there is no one except Me.

Turn to Me and be saved, All the ends of the earth, For I am God and there is no one else." (Isaiah 45:21b-22)

"I am Jehovah who makes all things, Who stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the earth (Who was with Me?) (Isa. 44:24)

"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts, I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)

"And you are my witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Or is there any other Rock? I do not know of any." (Isa. 44:8)

"Remember the former things of old, That I am God and there is no one else; I am God and there is no one like Me, Who declares the end from the beginning and things which have not been done from ancient times, saying My counsel will stand, and all My desire I will accomplish." (Isa. 46:9)

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Him whom You have sent, Jesus Christ." (Jesus speaking in John 17:3)

"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." ( 1 Timothy 2:5)

"Therefore ... we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, either in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords,

Yet to us there is one God, the Father, out from whom are all things, and we are unto Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through Him." (1 Cor. 8:4b-6)

" ... in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom your crucified and whom God has raised from the dead ... And there is salvation in no other, for neither is there another name under heaven given among men in which we must be saved." (Acts 4:10b,12)

"If indeed God is one, who will justify the circumcision out of faith and the uncircumcision through faith." (Rom. 3:30)

"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (1 John 5:20,21)

We don't have to be confused. We only need to receive the Bible's revelation and receive Christ as Lord.

"Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:23)

Originally posted by twhitehead
Read the verses yourself. It is clear that in some the meaning intended is 'I have no equal', rather than 'there are no other gods'. Meanwhile other verses clearly mention other gods, frequently saying God is above them. In fact, I can't find a single verse where it unequivocally states that there are no other gods. Can you?

Read the verses yourself. It is clear that in some the meaning intended is 'I have no equal', rather than 'there are no other gods'. Meanwhile other verses clearly mention other gods, frequently saying God is above them. In fact, I can't find a single verse where it unequivocally states that there are no other gods. Can you?

Other "so-called" gods are mentioned.

Also what is mentioned is that the idols worshipped are demons. So the so-called "other gods" are demonic spirits.

Yes, I read the passages about God judging the gods of Egypt.

The unequivical passages on the only God - the God of Israel, are nicely collected in the book of Isaiah between chapters 44 - 46. A few of them were provided above.

In the New Testament you have God dispensing Himself into man. So the revelation of Father - Son - Holy Spirit as God dispensing and imparting His life into man, is elaborated on. It is clear that this dispensing God is the one true and only God.

Yes, I can recall some passages where it seems that God is comparing Himself to the idols or false gods of the Gentiles. In the full unfolding of the 66 books of the Bible there are also such passages.

But we also have apostles saying that "TO US" that is the believers in Christ, there is no God but one. We are not deceived by many "so-called gods" so-called lords.

" ... we [the Christian] know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one.

For even if there are so-called gods, either in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords,

Yet to us there is one God, the Father ... and one Lord, Jesus Christ ..." (see 1 Cor. 8:4-6)

Jesus, the Son of God refered to "the only true God, and Him whom You have sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

Originally posted by sonship

Read the verses yourself. It is clear that in some the meaning intended is 'I have no equal', rather than 'there are no other gods'. Meanwhile other verses clearly mention other gods, frequently saying God is above them. In fact, I can't find a single verse where it unequivocally states that there are no other gods. Can you?

Other [b]"so ...[text shortened]... "the only true God, and Him whom You have sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3) [/b]

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82 if I am not mistaken.

Gods plural, more than one god. However you choose to read that it clearly says more than one god. No doubt Rev. Hindquarters will be along soon to prattle about common sense and how I have been deceived by Saint Dawkins but it is there in black and white on the page. Just to be sure I checked three different editions.

Originally posted by Kepler
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82 if I am not mistaken.

Gods plural, more than one god. However you choose to read that it clearly says more than one god. No doubt Rev. Hindquarters will be along soon to prattle about common sense and how I have been deceived by Saint Dawkins but it is there in black and white on the page. Just to be sure I checked three different editions.

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82 if I am not mistaken.

I am aware of Psalm 82.

In the above posts I refered to the "gods" as idols or demons.
I did not include that the angels (in the case of Psalm 82, bad angels) are the gods.

Gods plural, more than one god. However you choose to read that it clearly says more than one god.

I quoted Isaiah the prophet. I did not "choose" to read other than what God spoke through Isaiah the prophet.

That was not my interpretation. That was my quotation -

Ie. " ... I am God and there is no one else ..."

I do recall that Elohim is plural. The first verse in the Bible says - "In the beginning God [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth ..." (Genesis 1:1)

The Hebrew name is plural but the verb "created" is singular. Furthermore, in verse 26 we read "Us" and "Our" as God speaks of creating man in the image of God. But verse 27 uses the singular pronouns "He" and "His".

So God's nature is mysterious. I think we should understand the Triune God - the Trinity in these passages.

God is one (Isa. 45:5; 1 Cor. 8:4; 1 Tim. 2:5) . But He is also three - the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (Matt. 28:19)

I already spoke to the Trinity being related to God dispensing Himself into man.

Sorry, I must go now.

Originally posted by sonship

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82 if I am not mistaken.

I am aware of Psalm 82.

In the above posts I refered to the "gods" as idols or demons.
I did not include that the angels (in the case of Psalm 82, bad angels) are the gods.

[quote]
Gods plural, more than one god. Howeve ...[text shortened]... y being related to God dispensing Himself into man.

Sorry, I must go now.

So when the author of Psalm 82 (God allegedly) says "gods" he is contradicting what the author of Isaiah (also God allegedly) says about multiple gods? From what you have said it seems that God himself has difficulty defining what a god is. Sometimes he is the only one, then demons are gods and then angels are also gods.

Originally posted by Kepler
So when the author of Psalm 82 (God allegedly) says "gods" he is contradicting what the author of Isaiah (also God allegedly) says about multiple gods? From what you have said it seems that God himself has difficulty defining what a god is. Sometimes he is the only one, then demons are gods and then angels are also gods.

So when the author of Psalm 82 (God allegedly) says "gods" he is contradicting what the author of Isaiah (also God allegedly) says about multiple gods? From what you have said it seems that God himself has difficulty defining what a god is. Sometimes he is the only one, then demons are gods and then angels are also gods.

I think over the course 1600 years and in 39 OT books and 27 NT books a lot was said. Taking out a passage here and there one might be perplexed.

I think some people are confused because they actually want to be confused to absolve themselves of feeling that God has said anything to them personally.

But these kinds of loopholes to plead "contradiction" can be avoided. At least they do not have to be major problems.

The final words of the New Testament surely help us not to be too perplexed by Psalm 82. If one wants to regard Psalm 82 as the last word of the divine revelation, I think this is choosing ambiguity.

So my sympathy with your perplexity has its limits. Why not base your main understanding in the Gospels and in the other New Testament books ?

I am just as capable of finding things to be puzzled over as rationals to not take the Bible seriously, if I wanted to play that game. After all, Ecclesiastes says that "money solves everything" .

I am not going to be impressed by problem passages you may want to throw up. The obstacles to knowing God are not these perculiar passages. The obstacle is our sins. The problem of the real guilt of our sins must be removed. Then there is no problem to communing with God in sweet fellowship

The problem is not "gods" or "sons of God" or "Elohim" or any of these matterrs. The problem preventing us from knowing God in reality is our sins. We need real forgiveness that we may come forward to fellowship with this holy God.

That obstacle is removed in the redemption of Jesus the Son of God. If we allow the blood of Christ to deal with the real guilt of our sins, to remove the record before God, then there is a freeway to enjoy God's presence.

Your problem with God not being real to you is not in Psalm 82. It is with the need for your sins to be cleansed away by Christ's redemptive work. That's where you would be well advized to spend some time -

One by one, confessing your known sins and trusting that the blood of Jesus cleanses them all away, as the Bible promises.

Your problem with not enjoying God subjectively and in fellowship is not with strange passages in Psalm 82. It is with what you DID. It is with your sins which have made a separation between you and God. The sins need to be reckoned as all paid for in Jesus' atoning death on His cross.

When you agree with God about your sins and Christ's resurrection the communion with this mysterious God will commence and you will enjoy this Divine Father.

Please don't hide behind Psalm 82. The insulation between you and God is not in a strange passage there. The problem is your sins cut off the fellowship because God is holy. He has made provision for that problem in the redemptive work of the Son of God on His cross.

Originally posted by sonship

So when the author of Psalm 82 (God allegedly) says "gods" he is contradicting what the author of Isaiah (also God allegedly) says about multiple gods? From what you have said it seems that God himself has difficulty defining what a god is. Sometimes he is the only one, then demons are gods and then angels are also gods.

I think over the vision for that problem in the redemptive work of the Son of God on His cross.

Do you recall a poster named Jaywill who insisted that there were no contradictions in the Bible?

Jaywill was shown two contradictory passages, but denied that they contradicted each other for post after post after post. Finally Jaywill admitted that they contradicted each other, but insisted that he believed they were both true - and equally so. You can't make up stuff like this. It's a prime example of the lengths that some will go to in order to deny the truth.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you recall a poster named Jaywill who insisted that there were no contradictions in the Bible?

Jaywill was shown two contradictory passages, but denied that they contradicted each other for post after post after post. Finally Jaywill admitted that they contradicted each other, but insisted that he believed they were both true - and equally so. You ...[text shortened]... ike this. It's a prime example of the lengths that some will go to in order to deny the truth.

This is another example of why absolute faith is SO dangerous, logic and reason become irrelevant. How much pain and suffering has been caused by those who "KNOW" themselves to be right ? :'(

Originally posted by sonship
Other [b]"so-called" gods are mentioned.

Also what is mentioned is that the idols worshipped are demons. So the so-called "other gods" are demonic spirits.[/b]

So essentially demons are gods. The problem is you cant stand having them use the title so you will go to great lengths to emphasize that they are only 'so-called'.

Originally posted by sonship

So when the author of Psalm 82 (God allegedly) says "gods" he is contradicting what the author of Isaiah (also God allegedly) says about multiple gods? From what you have said it seems that God himself has difficulty defining what a god is. Sometimes he is the only one, then demons are gods and then angels are also gods.

I think over the ...[text shortened]... vision for that problem in the redemptive work of the Son of God on His cross.

I don't think its healthy to know the bible as well as you do...

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you recall a poster named Jaywill who insisted that there were no contradictions in the Bible?

Jaywill was shown two contradictory passages, but denied that they contradicted each other for post after post after post. Finally Jaywill admitted that they contradicted each other, but insisted that he believed they were both true - and equally so. You ike this. It's a prime example of the lengths that some will go to in order to deny the truth.

Do you recall a poster named Jaywill who insisted that there were no contradictions in the Bible?

I am jaywill.

And I have known that there are paradoxical truths in the Bible.
Some call them contradictions. Possibly. But most of the ones I consider are paradoxes.

Jaywill was shown two contradictory passages, but denied that they contradicted each other for post after post after post.

I am jaywill. I suspended my account and after a long intermission signed up again as sonship.

This is now about the third time that I have notified people that this is me - "jaywill".

As to the instance you speak of, I don't re-call. But you are welcomed to give me the passages again which you say were a contradiction which jaywill denied.

However, some of you fellas I have spoken to enough. So if this was a re-hash of an old discussion we had previously, I will probably not repeat the argument.

Your recollection sounds a little suspicious to me. I have had no problem informing posters that a certain biblical problem was too difficult for me. So what you discribe doesn't sound too familiar.

Finally Jaywill admitted that they contradicted each other, but insisted that he believed they were both true - and equally so. You can't make up stuff like this. It's a prime example of the lengths that some will go to in order to deny the truth.

It does sound like me that I trust whatever the Bible says. I am not obligated to reconcile all paradoxical statements.

The enjoyment of God Himself swallows up many seemingly problematic "contradictions."

Originally posted by twhitehead
So essentially demons are gods. The problem is you cant stand having them use the title so you will go to great lengths to emphasize that they are only 'so-called'.

So essentially demons are gods. The problem is you cant stand having them use the title so you will go to great lengths to emphasize that they are only 'so-called'.

I was quoting the Apostle Paul in the use of the phrase "so-called".

So if I "can't stand it" I "can't stand it" according to the Scripture itself. That's just fine.

Originally posted by sonship

Do you recall a poster named Jaywill who insisted that there were no contradictions in the Bible?

I am jaywill.

And I have known that there are paradoxical truths in the Bible.
Some call them contradictions. Possibly. But most of the ones I consider are paradoxes.

[quote]
Jaywill was shown two contradictory passages, but de
The enjoyment of God Himself swallows up many seemingly problematic "contradictions."

I know you're Jaywill.

Your recollection sounds a little suspicious to me. I have had no problem informing posters that a certain biblical problem was too difficult for me. So what you discribe doesn't sound too familiar.

Regardless, we went through many a post before you finally admitted it - with your remarkably illogical caveat of course.

The enjoyment of God Himself swallows up many seemingly problematic "contradictions."

Seems like this gets to the heart of the matter: Placing "personal enjoyment" above truth. That said, still can't understand why so many Christians place so little value on truth especially when so many proclaim, "God is truth".