Spirituality
01 Feb 10
02 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by menace71God is essence itself. It is the 'force of animation' which is in all living things-(of course God is much more,everything thought of and un thought of)- but for the purposes of addressing your question I will stick to my contention that God is the force of animation.
Has God ever appeared in any way shape or form so that man could see Him?
Through out all of History?
Manny
God has appeared in many different ways to people all over the world an in all times. God appears to those that seek Him/Her but WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT. He/She is directly related to your thinking and faith and appears for the one and only reason, which is to furthur an individuals evolution. (please note that I use 'evolution' here as the words proper meaning,ie. to evolve into a higher state of being, to furthur an invividuals divination NOT to satisfies ones ego.)
The uninitiated will have a rude shock if they see God and can literally go insane from the experience. One must prepares ones mind with UTMOST CLARITY OF UNIVERSAL PRINCIPALS OF EVOLUTION , USING ALL OF ONES EFFORT.
There is no luke-warm satori. It is has to be approached with 100% sincerity absolute faith.
Jesus was thought to be God incarnate as was the bhudda and others. Of course there are many fakes and demi-gods and the trick is telling the real ones from the fakes.
I onced asked a bhuddist monk,(geshe-la), whether he was enlightened. He said that he would soon be. He could've lied and said he was enlightened.He had a very powerful energy and could easily 'lead and control' every sitting I went to with him, which consisted of 40-50 people. And all this with just very limited English.
Every time I met him (which was 7-8 times) he seemed to be 'beaming' off life. He seemed to me perfect in every way. I could tell no sin on him, whatsoever. Not in the present or the past. This guy was just absolutely vice-less. (I figured I shouldn't try to compare myslef to him as he had come from a long lineage of other monks that had been living "cleanly" for many genrations(?), and I had come from many generations of boozers and womanizers.)
Anyway , besides this guy I have met many others (usually only once, but with a couple of notable exceptions), who gave off an amazing "Godly" energy and all had eyes that seemed to "glow almost" and "see into your soul" . But thats where the similarity stops. Every single one of these were completely individual and seemed to share hardly any commonalities,whatsoever.
As to me sharing of these stories with others, I quickly learned that it was better to not talk about them unless I was asked a question which was relevant to a story . (I was ridiculed and told I was wrong by a very close friend of mine who was quite into eastern mysticism,etc. So if he doubted me then others would surely ridicule me. )
Still I learned so much from these experiences, more than could be learned from any book, (and I think books are one of the most, (if not THE most), imporant things we have today).
These meetings have shaped my life more than all the other influences upon my life (family,gentetics,etc.) Often the people were accompanied by higher dimensional entities who could only be sensed using (I believe what BlackBeetle would call) ,the sixth sense.
Where any of these God fully manifest in a human? No I dont believe so, but I'm not 100% percent sure. 1 or 2 could've been. But these people had amazing 'powers' that could make themslves pass themselves of as real gods. But none of them did,they might've tried it in the past (and stumbled upon th path of the demi-god) , but quickly snapped out of it. Powers are never to be miused lest you want to lose them.
Anyway Manny please let me know if any of this nears what you were after. After all the wording of your question is a little ambigous(if you think about it), and wonder what you meant exactly by "..God..any way shape form.."(?) Thnx🙂
02 Feb 10
Hey karoly
Thanks for your thoughts and answer there. I admit that I may seem closed minded in the aspect that I believe in the Judaic / Christian God. I believe God to be a being that is personal and very involved in the universe. I would say I always believed in a god even as a young man in HS. Maybe it is partially due to growing up in the western world. I had major conflict within myself when I first became a Christian. The major part of my conflict came from the intellectual side of things. How could I mesh two different world views together? I don't pretend to have all of the answers like some may on this forum. It's a fine line to walk at times. I think we try to put God in our little prefabricated box just the way we want him to be. However this is not wise at all. I do believe in absolutes in this universe. There is black and white and good and evil. Experience alone will show us this fact. I think God in His very essence is spirit but I believe he has shown himself to man in various forms and ways in history. I believe men have seen God and lived (Some say no way)because God showed himself to them. Of course partially veiled because God in His essence would be blinding and even terrifying. I do believe men have seen glimpses of God's glory and even beauty. Read the accounts in the books of Ezekiel and Isiah were these men saw God. They always fall on their faces in awe. I believe that God's original plan was to walk with man to fellowship with man. As many believe He will eventually restore this universe and earth and We will see God.
Manny
02 Feb 10
1 edit
Jacob wrestling with the Angel I think was God manifesting Himself.
Jacob's named was changed to Israel which means one who wrestles with God and lives.
Melchizedek I think was the pre-incarnate Christ. (For our JW friends we can argue if God in a different thread) "The king of Salem" The king of Peace roughly translated.
The Angel that spoke to Samson's parents. Their response we have seen God yet lived.
Isaiah's Vision Isa 6
I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. He saw God (by the way no JW can argue that one)
There are too many more examples of God showing Himself to man.
Manny
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by menace71That doesn’t make you close-minded. I am a non-dualist, so my view is closer to Karoly’s and blackbeetle’s. But theistic dualism (God is a being) versus non-dualism (God is the ground of being—in which, from which and of which everything is; the Tao of Taoism, Brahman in Advaita Vedanta, Ein Sof in the Jewish version)—well, that’s the great divide in religious philosophy.
Hey karoly
Thanks for your thoughts and answer there. I admit that I may seem closed minded in the aspect that I believe in the Judaic / Christian God. I believe God to be a being that is personal and very involved in the universe. I would say I always believed in a god even as a young man in HS. Maybe it is partially due to growing up in the western ...[text shortened]... y believe He will eventually restore this universe and earth and We will see God.
Manny
For some non-dualists, the various gods (depending on which religion) may be manifestations of the divine ground; for others they are symbolic or archetypal ways of speaking about the expressive ground-of-being and some non-dualist religions use a lot of theistic language that way); for others …. But that does nothing to erase the divide, since non-dualist theists do not, of course see it that way.
It’s not a matter of being close-minded, though.
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelThis reminds me of the lamed vav: the “thirty-six”. In the Talmud, it is said that there are—at any given time—36 tzaddikim, righteous (or holy) persons in the world, whose presence keeps the whole thing from unraveling into chaos. Some of them can be known, some are unknown, some are unknown even to themselves.
God is essence itself. It is the 'force of animation' which is in all living things-(of course God is much more,everything thought of and un thought of)- but for the purposes of addressing your question I will stick to my contention that God is the force of animation.
God has appeared in many different ways to people all over the world an in all times. ...[text shortened]... onder what you meant exactly by "..God..any way shape form.."(?) Thnx🙂
Now, 36 may be a symbolic number (I’ll have to look it up). And I wouldn’t take it literally anyway. But I’ll turn it into a little koan:
“There is no lamed vav—but you’re one of them!”
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by menace71I'm not knocking your view point about your beliefs but you make the comment that some have seen God.
Hey karoly
Thanks for your thoughts and answer there. I admit that I may seem closed minded in the aspect that I believe in the Judaic / Christian God. I believe God to be a being that is personal and very involved in the universe. I would say I always believed in a god even as a young man in HS. Maybe it is partially due to growing up in the western ...[text shortened]... y believe He will eventually restore this universe and earth and We will see God.
Manny
But if your going to believe what the Bible says on all things then you have to believe in the one I quoted to you at Ex 33:20 which is a very clear point it's making here.
Just my opinion but it seems your adding something here that is not found in the Bible at all with any scriptures. But that is a problem that the Trinity always brings up with those who believe it, is not knowing the separateness of Jesus from Jehovah which always blur the lines of who is being spoken of in a given verse.
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by menace71Isa 6 is just what it says it is..a vision. Not real Manny. No one has ever seen God as it is not mentioned one time ever in the Bible.
Jacob wrestling with the Angel I think was God manifesting Himself.
Jacob's named was changed to Israel which means one who wrestles with God and lives.
Melchizedek I think was the pre-incarnate Christ. (For our JW friends we can argue if God in a different thread) "The king of Salem" The king of Peace roughly translated.
The Angel that spoke to Sam ...[text shortened]... argue that one)
There are too many more examples of God showing Himself to man.
Manny
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by galveston75Yes thats right Galveston, I would like to think I'm adding to other views. "Truth" is not limited to one point of view, and in this sense , if it works for you then fine. I have no problem with people not agreeing with my views. They (my views) are very hard to describe in any accurate fashion. I just try my best and often feel that others have described it better than I have. But I never one to shy away from giving it a try.
I'm not knocking your view point about your beliefs but you make the comment that some have seen God.
But if your going to believe what the Bible says on all things then you have to believe in the one I quoted to you at Ex 33:20 which is a very clear point it's making here.
Just my opinion but it seems your adding something here that is not found i ...[text shortened]... of Jesus from Jehovah which always blur the lines of who is being spoken of in a given verse.
Trying has embarressed myself on several occasions and I've been wrong on several occasions.
Just remember , I am not advocating my view(s) as a 'be all and end all' solution to lifes ontological problems-I am merely trying to re-tell my experiences in the most accurate way I can to possibly enhance others views.
True spirituality is a closed experience for the experiencer as the "knowing" of God can only be verified by a bona fide Zen master, who may be quite hard to find.
In the absence of such a master( who is a master of himself and not others), we only have our own relationship with God ,which is the best indicator of your true standing in relationshiip to the universe.
Again I say, I am not here to contradict the bible, merely to add to our collective knowledge of the Divine.
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by vistesdYes the the notion of the "thirty-six" is not a problem for me. What I mean is that the idea is more important than the actual true figure.
This reminds me of the lamed vav: the “thirty-six”. In the Talmud, it is said that there are—at any given time—36 tzaddikim, righteous (or holy) persons in the world, whose presence keeps the whole thing from unraveling into chaos. Some of them can be known, some are unknown, some are unknown even to themselves.
Now, 36 may be a symboli ...[text shortened]... yway. But I’ll turn it into a little koan:
“There is no lamed vav—but you’re one of them!”
I would like to think I'm in the right ball park with the way I try to relay my experiences. I would like to think I've been initiated into lifes mysteries as my "hold " on satori experiences becomes more balanced and my fear less amplified as I eneter into altered states.
As for your koan,its got me miffed,(like any good koan🙂 ). Whats a vav?
02 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75So what are you saying? A vision is not real? A hallucination? An LSD trip? Ok then by your reasoning we can throw away most of the old testament. If I'm to believe the account of this vision given or initiated by God it's because God wanted Isaiah to see a glimpse of Himself. Read it closely Isaiah said I saw the Lord sitting on his throne. I saw? God never corrects Isaiah. The vision was real.
Isa 6 is just what it says it is..a vision. Not real Manny. No one has ever seen God as it is not mentioned one time ever in the Bible.
Manny
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by vistesdThanks
That doesn’t make you close-minded. I am a non-dualist, so my view is closer to Karoly’s and blackbeetle’s. But theistic dualism (God is [b]a being) versus non-dualism (God is the ground of being—in which, from which and of which everything is; the Tao of Taoism, Brahman in Advaita Vedanta, Ein Sof in the Jewish version)—well, that’s the great divide ...[text shortened]... theists do not, of course see it that way.
It’s not a matter of being close-minded, though.[/b]
good subject either way.
Manny
02 Feb 10
Originally posted by menace71The inner beauty of such people is apparent only to those who have eyes to see.
God could come to you as a wino or homeless on a street corner and you would not know.
Manny
I too dont find you close-minded,Manny.Like I said,if it works for you , then thats great. If you feel no inner-conflict associated with your faith , then you are surely on the right track. I wish you all the best..