So far I have not been impressed with the reasons anyone has put forward showing God has mental problems.
So for the next few posts from me I will turn the tables. Instead I will put forward my reasons from the Bible to believe that sin has caused the sinner to have mental problems.
Sin has damaged man's reasoning ability about the truth of God. Sin has darkened man's understanding and made all fallen people mental cases before God to one degree or another.
We'll examine what the Bible has to say about the mental state of fallen sinners. Sin has damaged our minds, confused our sense of priorities, dulled our consciences, and rendered our rationalities wicked.
Therefore the New Testament says that we are transformed as Christians by the renewing of the mind:
"And do not be fashioned according to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and well pleasing and perfect." (Rom. 12:2)
You see the old mind with its old way of thinking has caused the sinner to pine away in a life which is not "good" and not "well pleasing to God" and very far from "perfect". Rather it has been a mind at enmity with God:
"Because the mind set on the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God for neither can it be. And those who are in the flesh cannot please God." (Rom. 8:7,8)
No one whose mind is at enmity with God can have a healthy thought life. And no one who suppresses the life long conviction of the conscience that they have sinned and not sought forgiveness can have all that healthy of a mind.
To shut up the God created conscience and refuse to be forgiven that one is at peace with God is not mentally healthy. One needs the peace and reconciliation that comes with confessing that one is a sinner and receiving the redemption in Jesus Christ.
Then one can be freed from self condemnation and the sense of wretchedness which troubles the minds of well meaning people who could not stop from sinning:
"There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death" (Rom. 8:1,2)
According to the entire previos chapter of Romans 7 Paul is speaking of the freedom in Christ the believer gains from self condemnation and the frustration of being a slave to sinful deeds:
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?
Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord ... There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Chirst Jesus" (See Romans 7:24 - 8:1)
There is actual guilt before God in the sinner. But there is also guilt within one's conscience which can lead to mental problems. Both are solved by receiving Christ Jesus. There is also the overly sensative conscience under false guilt or accusation of the Devil. That too is healed by being filled with Christ Jesus.
God in Christ is verses an unhealthy mental life.
Originally posted by jaywillSo all you're gonna do now is fling poo eh?
I was only telling you that your potty mouth phraseology was about the only strength your attacks had.
The smell is strong anyway.
Why not present arguments that serve to undermine my postition as opposed to cowardly evading them!...that is what debates are about
Originally posted by AgergSo now you're concerned with a mature debate after having blown it.
So all you're gonna do now is fling poo eh?
Why not present arguments that serve to undermine my postition as opposed to cowardly evading them!...that is what debates are about
My points are up there and my rebuttals are too.
Right now I am on a line discussing the damage upon the mind of the fallen sinner because of the effects of sin. And don't think my comment are just for your sake only.
The damaging effects of the sin nature are seen early in Genesis in the murder of Abel by Cain.
Enraged with jealousy Cain rises up and kills his faithful brother. God then comes and asks Cain where his brother is. Of course God knows but is giving Cain a chance to repent for his crime. Cain's mind is darkened and says he neither knows nor is he reponsible. "Am I my brother's keeper?"
The human conscience of Cain has been hardened not only against God but against his fellow man. Cain is callouse. This is a sickness of the mind. The psycho behavior of Cain is shown to us to warn how departing from God damages man's thinking.
Cain care only for his on punishment. He is banished and becomes the first nomad wondering about over the earth. Cain becomes a wonderer and he says that not only is Gid's face hid from him but even the earth's face is strange to him.
To depart from God has caused man to corrupt the relationship with both his fellow man and with the earth itself. Now Cain is a homeless wanderer fearful of the vengence which may come to him.
The story of Cain is recorded to show among other things how the mind of fallen humanity was damaged when man went out from the presence of God.
"Then Jehovah said to Cain, Where is Abel your brother? And he said, I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?" (Gen. 4:9)
Cain's conscience is hardened to the point that he cares nothing that he has murdered his brother. Cain's mind is damaged to the point that he actually believes that he can lie to God.
Who is the onwe behaving like a psycho? Cain is the one whose mind is darkened and hardened and damaged by his sin.
Then he becomes a nomad and a wanderer:
"And Cain said to Jehovah, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
Now You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground, and from Your face I will be hidden; and I will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me." (Gen. 4:13,14)
God is very merciful to Cain. Though God disciplines Cain He has not yet allowed man to establish capital punishment. No one is allowed to take vengence upon Cain.
But Cain is alienated from society. He is not at peace in the world, paranoid, and void of the presence of God. His need is to confess his sin and repent of his sin that he might be forgiven by God. But no, Cain is too "smart" for that. He prefers to wander homelessly without God throughout the earth.
Genesis in this portion is showing the gradual decline of human society in its departure from God. Many other things for sure occured. These few things are recorded by the Holy Spirit to teach us of the need for salvation.
That salvation includes the renewing of the mind, the dispelling of the Satanic way of reasoning, and the reconciliation with God in peace and in love.
Originally posted by jaywillJaywill...I didn't actually make this debate personal...I attack your religion but not you personally...so I use a few words that you would prefer I had swapped for others?...I would prefer that you did not spouting rubbish from your little storybook and present a tenable case!!!
So now you're concerned with a mature debate after having blown it.
My points are up there and my rebuttals are too.
Right now I am on a line discussing the damage upon the mind of the fallen sinner because of the effects of sin. And don't think my comment are just for your sake only.
Anyway, the post you evaded directly refutes the credibility of your position, and you have not resolved it
Originally posted by howardgeeSo what do you want , spirituality for little kiddies , everything nice and sweet? Nobody ever dies? Christianity is far more complex and gritty than that . Have you ever considered that God was maybe being "nice" by letting him die ? By dying he may well have joined God in eternal bliss and is now far happier than you or I are , but you say that God must be the bad guy because a person died? You evaluate God based on what happens in this world as if heaven was never on the cards. This is a bit like saying a dentist is bad because fillings hurt ...but if you look at the bigger picture you can see there is more to it than that. So evaluate God if you like but you have to include ALL of him in the equation ..and that includes the afterlife. You can't have one without the other.
"I know God's presence in watching my brother die of AIDS."
So God let your brother die of AIDS? That was nice of him, wasn't it?
Originally posted by MunchiesI was born again before I was born.
Jaywill were you brought up as a Christian or did you convert later?
I was chosen before the foundation of the world which means that God marked out my destiny to be a son of God before He created the universe.
Originally posted by nook7I don't know about cool.
Jeez, that must make you pretty old then.
But it is a welcomed changed to the lost sense of the modern man who knows not where he came from or why he is here.
It is not knowledge for an elite few, you should know. This revelation is right there in the Bible for everyone to read and believe and enjoy.