Originally posted by Rajk999My God Rak!!!!! You are absurd!!!!
Of course, he was the victim of a crime. I have been doing that since childhood without even knowing of what Jesus preached. Jesus only served to reinforce what I already know and did.
But you, if I see you drunk in a gutter, before I picked you up and took you home, I would slap you about 20 times across your face. You are a victim of your own stupidity and weakness.
Does scripture say for certain that this man was perfect? Or didn't have issues?
You are lacking here.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeHere is the scriptural support:
If a villainous chap stole my wallet, and while making his swift getaway was knocked down by a car, I would still be the first on scene to give him assistance.
I have no control over his righteousness, only my own. I could probably find scriptural support for such a stance.
Edit: Unless of course he was eating cheese.
Christ died and gave his life for the ungodly.
We are to emulate Christ.
Therefore we should assist the worse of humanity .. even Chaney3.
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Originally posted by apathistNo actually the fact that you will not answer reveals to me that it is pretty strong, dude.
I guess your point is that might makes right. Pretty weak, dude.
Final and ultimate authority in love, holiness, righteousness, even forgiveness cannot be rebelled against forever with victory. You must lose.
In terms which no one can misunderstand, we cannot expect happiness if we refuse forever to be reconciled to the highest rightness and goodness. On the other hand we look forward to eternal happiness in the will of God.
originally posted by sonship
No actually the fact that you will not answer reveals to me that it is pretty strong, dude.
But your questions were all loaded. Like have you stopped beating your wife. Here's your first question again:
1.) What is the Authority above God by which this charge is made and punishment is enforced and executed upon God ?
Your bolding. The authority is my own sense of right and wrong, justice and injustice, good and evil. But I don't claim I'm "above" the creator of the universe! So your question is loaded. And your questions certainly imply that since God is so mighty we have no business questioning him - you strongly imply that might makes right. And that would make your view weak and stupid.
Rework your objection so that it isn't quite so pathetic? Btw you didn't ask what the punishment would be.
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Originally posted by apathist
I guess your point is that might makes right. Pretty weak, dude.
I guess your point is that might makes right. Pretty weak, dude.
okay, let's talk about "pretty weak" things in comparison.
Here's two men Jesus of Nazareth and apathist. Jesus says He comes to in every way manifest and define God His Father. Apathist on the other hand deems he is of a moral quality that he can look down upon the God of the Bible, critique, correct, criticize, adjust, improve, and otherwise expose the wrongness of this God.
Is there any three and one half years of your life apathist that I could compare to the three and one half years of the words and deeds of Jesus, such that you, apathist seem more quaified as an ethical and moral authority ?
Relative to strength of testimonial of living and teaching and even spiritual impact on mankind, whose life example would you consider the "weaker" authority - Yours or Jesus Christ's ?
Don't be too humble now.
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Originally posted by apathist
Your bolding. The authority is my own sense of right and wrong, justice and injustice, good and evil. But I don't claim I'm "above" the creator of the universe! So your question is loaded. And your questions certainly imply that since God is so mighty we have no business questioning him - you strongly imply that might makes right. And that would make your view weak and stupid.
Rework your objection so that it isn't quite so pathetic? Btw you didn't ask what the punishment would be.
Hold on. I have questions about God. I have some good ones.
I do have though a track record as a kind of resume of God's interaction with the world over the course of thousands of years. Through the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Israel in Canaan, the Israelites in Babylonian captivity, returned from captivity, during the time of Jesus.
I have a long record in history to consider the cumulative case for God's ways and wisdom. I've been persuaded that He is righteous and it is not simply a matter of "might makes right".
This is the benefit of having a history of God over 66 books.
In my experience God has been very gentle like a dove yet very powerful too.
He doesn't usurp my will.
He never coerces my freedom to decide.
i have been wooed to love Him.
I cannot hold it against God that He is a Person of more than one angle.
I notice things. I notice how Jesus rebuked His disciples when they asked if they should call miraculous fire down upon one of the cities that rejected Him.
" And they did not receive Him, because His face was set to go to Jerusalem.
And seeing this, the disciples James and John said, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them ?
But turning, He rebuked them and said, You do not know of what kind of spirit you are. The Son of Man has not come to destroy men's lives but to save them. and they went into another village." ( Luke 9:53-56)
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Over the years of reading and personal experience with God, I have been persuaded that He does the right thing, in the right way, at the right time.
Here we have the Creator of the universe and man come as a man tortured, bloodied, whipped, nailed to a cross in His uttermost love for us and selfless dedication to the truth. He could have fought and defeated His enemies with ease. He could have called twelve legions of angels.
Had this been a typical Hollywood adventure movie they certainly would have had Jesus whip His enemies into a swift defeat Bruce Lee style. No, He went as to a Lamb to the slaughter. Something was so important to Him to do that you and I might be saved.
Maybe He knows something we should know.
God did vindicate Him in resurrection after He bore in His body the sins of the world under the supernatural judgment of God, not to mention the torture inflicted upon Him by man.
It reminds me of a favorite line to a classic Christian Hymn "Beneath the Cross of Jesus" .
There lies, beneath its shadow
But on the farther side
The darkness of an awful grave
That gapes both deep and wide
And there between us stands the cross
Two arms outstretched to save
Like a watchman set to guard the way
From that eternal grave
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Beneath the Cross of Jesus, a few more verses:
Upon that cross of Jesus
Mine eye at times can see
The very dying form of One
Who suffered there for me
And from my smitten heart, with tears
Two wonders I confess-
The wonders of His glorious love
And my own worthlessness
I take, O cross, thy shadow
For my abiding place
I ask no other sunshine than
The sunshine of His face
Content to let the world go by
To know no gain nor loss
My sinful self my only shame
My glory all the cross
I'm here. Jesus is not. And there is no wisdom in the Bible that can't be found elsewhere.
There are lots of religions, each telling me different things. And there are lots of Christian sects, each telling me different things. And I search but find only nature and the world, I don't find gods and demi-gods, except in myth and legend. So I believe in nature and the world, but don't believe in myths and legends.
For this your creator God damns me to hell for eternity?
Originally posted by sonshipA local tribal wargod, during a short period long ago. There's the rest of the world and the rest of time, too. You are myopic, with blinders on.
... Through the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Israel in Canaan, the Israelites in Babylonian captivity, returned from captivity, during the time of Jesus. ...