Good evil

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Origen was a third century Church father. Why wouldn't his opinion line up with scripture?

What makes him any different than the rest of us. Scripture is a revelation from God not high thoughts of man.

@fmf said
"Play"? "Favour"? If you can't talk about nature, or get your head round it, without anthropomorphizing it ~ in order to conceptualize human efforts to cope with it ~ perhaps you can only discuss it with theists. Just a thought.

You can't cope with your contradictions, and others, with better and true visual acuity, are bound to say that you are a sore loser, who caused your own injuries.

Anthropomorphism? Yes, indeed! An obvious double-edged sword! One edge used by atheists against theists. The other edge is used by theists, to cut through the rhetoric of those who idolize the nature they believe to have created us, and the physical universe we currently live in.

It's only a matter of difference between theists and atheists, as to which object is being anthropomorphized. We all conceptualize to cope with the ultimate mystery of existence.

How can anyone have a productive discussion with someone who cannot, or will not, admit to visible contradictions they have fallen into? Just another thought!

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Separating our motivations from other animals is the slippery slope to feeling we are somehow special and perhaps created by a God.

It doesn't represent a slippery slope to me.

Not factoring in the effect that the cognitive functionality and capacity for abstraction, that has evolved in humans, on the nature and scope of our motivations doesn't seem wise if we are to understand consciousness and our concepts of good and evil.

And it certainly doesn't have me slipping down any slopes towards theism: quite the opposite in fact.

@pettytalk said
You can't cope with your contradictions, and others, with better and true visual acuity, are bound to say that you are a sore loser, who caused your own injuries.

You haven't shown there to be any contractions in what I've said.

@pettytalk said
Anthropomorphism? Yes, indeed! An obvious double-edged sword! One edge used by atheists against theists. The other edge is used by theists, to cut through the rhetoric of those who idolize the nature they believe to have created us, and the physical universe we currently live in.

"Idolize" in what way?

Do you understand what is meant by "anthropomorphization"?

@pettytalk said
How can anyone have a productive discussion with someone who cannot, or will not, admit to visible contradictions they have fallen into? Just another thought!

What "visible contradictions" are you referring to?

@pettytalk said
It's only a matter of difference between theists and atheists, as to which object is being anthropomorphized.

But I not anthropomorphizing any "object". It is you who is doing so.

@pettytalk said
You can't cope with your contradictions, and others, with better and true visual acuity, are bound to say that you are a sore loser, who caused your own injuries.

you are a sore loser, who caused your own injuries

Thanks for the "banter".

@kellyjay said
What makes him any different than the rest of us. Scripture is a revelation from God not high thoughts of man.

At any time, has God, personally, revealed anything which man has no need to interpret?

Even his son came to us using double-talk. Are you one of Jesus' chosen disciples? Can you ask Jesus if everything in the Bible is to be taken literally? It seems that you will not accept anyone's opinion on this, unless Jesus himself tells it to you, face-to-face. But are you really certain that you know your Jesus? Even his chosen disciples had a hard time understanding him, and that's why they all ran away at the time of trouble. And one in particular, the rock on which the Christian church was to be built on, also denied knowing him, trice, as the rooster crowed, before going into hiding with the others afterwards.

The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

@fmf said
"Idolize" in what way?

Do you understand what is meant by "anthropomorphization"?

What is this line of questioning? Do you believe that you are the sole owner of dictionaries?
Verb (used with or without object), an·thro·po·mor·phized, an·thro·po·mor·phiz·ing. to ascribe human form or attributes to (an animal, plant, material object, etc.).

I just looked it up on Wiki too. Here, just in case you don't know the meaning, either. But it's not all inclusive.

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, or intentions to non-human entities.[1] It is considered to be an innate tendency of human psychology.[2] Personification is the related attribution of human form and characteristics to abstract concepts such as nations, emotions, and natural forces, such as seasons and weather. Both have ancient roots as storytelling and artistic devices, and most cultures have traditional fables with anthropomorphized animals as characters. People have also routinely attributed human emotions and behavioral traits to wild as well as domesticated animals.[3].......

@pettytalk said
What is this line of questioning? Do you believe that you are the sole owner of dictionaries?
Verb (used with or without object), an·thro·po·mor·phized, an·thro·po·mor·phiz·ing. to ascribe human form or attributes to (an animal, plant, material object, etc.).

I just looked it up on Wiki too. Here, just in case you don't know the meaning, either. But it's not all inclus ...[text shortened]... y attributed human emotions and behavioral traits to wild as well as domesticated animals.[3].......

What is this line of questioning?

When you suggested that I anthropomorphize nature, it became apparent that you were not using the word correctly.

@pettytalk said
What is this line of questioning? Do you believe that you are the sole owner of dictionaries?
Verb (used with or without object), an·thro·po·mor·phized, an·thro·po·mor·phiz·ing. to ascribe human form or attributes to (an animal, plant, material object, etc.).

I just looked it up on Wiki too. Here, just in case you don't know the meaning, either. But it's not all inclus ...[text shortened]... y attributed human emotions and behavioral traits to wild as well as domesticated animals.[3].......

Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, or intentions to non-human entities.[1] It is considered to be an innate tendency of human psychology.[2] Personification is the related attribution of human form and characteristics to abstract concepts such as nations, emotions, and natural forces, such as seasons and weather. Both have ancient roots as storytelling and artistic devices, and most cultures have traditional fables with anthropomorphized animals as characters. People have also routinely attributed human emotions and behavioral traits to wild as well as domesticated animals.[3].......

Given this definition, why would you attribute "human traits, emotions, or intentions" to nature/the universe?

@pettytalk said
At any time, has God, personally, revealed anything which man has no need to interpret?

Even his son came to us using double-talk. Are you one of Jesus' chosen disciples? Can you ask Jesus if everything in the Bible is to be taken literally? It seems that you will not accept anyone's opinion on this, unless Jesus himself tells it to you, face-to-face. But are you reall ...[text shortened]... yes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

God can speak clearly and we still screw it up, if the universal truth is clearly visible but we view it with a broken hearts and minds we will add and subtract or alter where we should not giving us a corrupted view.

@fmf said
[b]Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human traits, emotions, or intentions to non-human entities.[1] It is considered to be an innate tendency of human psychology.[2] Personification is the related attribution of human form and characteristics to abstract concepts such as nations, emotions, and natural forces, such as seasons and weather. Both have ancient roots as storytell ...[text shortened]... definition, why would you attribute "human traits, emotions, or intentions" to nature/the universe?

If you can't still see why, I suggest that you go and splash the water in the shallow part of the pool, because you stand to drown in your own ignorance, not mine. It's too deep for you to understand that you are the one who has attributed personification to nature/universe. I was merely pointing it out to you, since you did not realize that you had. Or to be more gentle and charitable, you don't want to admit it, after it was pointed out. No shame in it, as we all make mistakes, just like Mother nature did, when she made us her favorite creation, apparently, by allowing us to speak for her.

Me: Has nature any compassion for the weak, the sick, the needy?
You: Humans acting in a morally sound way do.

You, a human, are acting the part of nature in your own personification. You will admit that Mother nature made you, yes? Mother nature, expressing herself through humans like you is personification, yes?

You are, after all, a person too. Not too nice with others, but definitely a monkey assuming to have the gift of gab. A descended of apes through evolution, you would think.

@pettytalk said
If you can't still see why, I suggest that you go and splash the water in the shallow part of the pool, because you stand to drown in your own ignorance, not mine. It's too deep for you to understand that you are the one who has attributed personification to nature/universe. I was merely pointing it out to you, since you did not realize that you had. Or to be more gentle an ...[text shortened]... y a monkey assuming to have the gift of gab. A descended of apes through evolution, you would think.

Hiya 🙂