Having freedom FROM religion:

Originally posted by KellyJay
In the end we will both see who is right or wrong. Now you've have nothing
to support everything sprang from nothing, or if there was a cause for how all
things got here, you don't know what it was, yet you reject out of hand as if
you know God being involved. I am not at all saying and never have that we
don't need science, I just don't believe everyth ...[text shortened]... rson of faith to
believe many of things some people claim as true are in fact true.
Kelly

I do not believe everything that is suggested by science is correct.In fact I believe most of we think we know will need revising as more information becomes available. It is this which makes the scientific methodology so powerful, it can adapt and grow and seeks new ideas. Religion is an intellectual prison based on conformity and self preservation. There is no such thing as a religious open mind, EVERYTHING starts and finishes with a god. I on the other hand would change my view given evidence .I won't be holding my breath!

Originally posted by OdBod
I do not believe everything that is suggested by science is correct.In fact I believe most of we think we know will need revising as more information becomes available. It is this which makes the scientific methodology so powerful, it can adapt and grow and seeks new ideas. Religion is an intellectual prison based on conformity and self preservation. There is ...[text shortened]... h a god. I on the other hand would change my view given evidence .I won't be holding my breath!

The idea of a god or gods has been with man from the beginning of recorded history. Why?

Originally posted by RJHinds
The idea of a god or gods has been with man from the beginning of recorded history. Why?

Probably the first question you have asked that is worthy of discussion.

Why do you think?

Could it be that within all of us is
1. a desire to live on beyond death.
2. a desire to think that we will see dead loved-ones again
3. a desire to know why we are here
4. a desire to appeal to a greater power when faced by life's injustices

we all have those desires.

Which explains why every race at every time in history has had religion.

The plethora of religions shows that they are all false.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Probably the first question you have asked that is worthy of discussion.

Why do you think?

Could it be that within all of us is
1. a desire to live on beyond death.
2. a desire to think that we will see dead loved-ones again
3. a desire to know why we are here
4. a desire to appeal to a greater power when faced by life's injustices

we [b]all[ ...[text shortened]... y time in history has had religion.

The plethora of religions shows that they are all false.

Here is one man's attempt to answer this question from an atheistic point of view.

Invention of God
Part 1
YouTube

Part 2
YouTube

Originally posted by sonhouse
All I can say is if I were some kind of god I would never allow any of that to happen. A little voice in the ear, word to the wise or something and if that didn't do it, a tiny tear in a brain artery would take care of the situation.

If enough people started having brain bleeds they might get the hint.

That is the problem with this free will thing. r if your god would come down and save the last human on Earth if we really do off ourselves?

All I can say is if I were some kind of god I would never allow any of that to happen. A little voice in the ear, word to the wise or something and if that didn't do it, a tiny tear in a brain artery would take care of the situation.

If enough people started having brain bleeds they might get the hint.

This might seem reasonable to you, but you have to understand that humans have to be given clear choices: follow God, or follow that insane lunatic everyone else seems to be following? Given the sheer stupidity of a large number of humans, the choice has to be *extremely* clear.

That is the problem with this free will thing. It's an illusion, made up by men to give the impression a god is in the background. There is no evidence for such a god.

Of course not. If there were evidence, it wouldn't exactly be free will, then, would it? It's very easy to claim there is no choice to be made, when you personally don't like either choice. But "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

The surprising thing is people continue living as if there were some god but all I see is the result of terror and evil in most of humanity.

Why is it surprising? I also see an awful lot of terror and evil in humanity, but these are the latter days. Charlie Daniels wrote "The devil went down to Georgia, he was looking for a soul to steal. He was in a bind 'cos he was way behind and he was willin' to make a deal." God is willing to give the devil a free hand in these latter days only because He knows the devil will still only get the souls who are already his. And maybe some fence-sitters. But the believers *know* there is yet hope and they are, in fact, already saved because God does not renege on His promises.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that some who claim to follow God and say they are saved will not in fact be saved. Some will yet be led astray. God can read men's hearts. We must endure to the end.

The human race would be much better served if we realized we are on our own and no god will come down and fix the boo boo's. Your alleged god has saved NOBODY, has stopped no wars, nothing.

He saved ME. And all the others who claim Jesus as their Lord. And all the ones who have yet to decide to follow Him before the end. Unfortunately, the list is quite short, because man has somehow become convinced that "we are on our own and no god will come down and fix the boo boo's".

I wonder if your god would come down and save the last human on Earth if we really do off ourselves?

My answer is yes:

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." -- Matthew 24:21-22

Those days shall be shortened by the second coming of Jesus Christ.

All this is a matter of faith. Don't believe it? No worries, you don't have to believe it. You can choose your own fate. That's what free will is about, after all.

Still, the offer stands.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The idea of a god or gods has been with man from the beginning of recorded history. Why?

I think early man's inability to understand natural phenomenon , combined with fear and a feeling of helplessness brought about a religious culture.

Originally posted by OdBod
I do not believe everything that is suggested by science is correct.In fact I believe most of we think we know will need revising as more information becomes available. It is this which makes the scientific methodology so powerful, it can adapt and grow and seeks new ideas. Religion is an intellectual prison based on conformity and self preservation. There is ...[text shortened]... h a god. I on the other hand would change my view given evidence .I won't be holding my breath!

What is better a mind that never knows if its right or one that thinks it is, the
result of what is better would be truth of a topic would it not? If God created
the universe and all in it, my belief in that event even fixed would be better
than someone's beliefs about the beginning that changes everytime they hear
a new idea.
Kelly

Originally posted by RJHinds
The idea of a god or gods has been with man from the beginning of recorded history. Why?

Why not? Deities are very convenient for plugging the holes in our knowledge. Doesn't mean the invoked gap god exists.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This might seem reasonable to you, but you have to understand that humans have to be given clear choices: follow God, or follow that insane lunatic everyone else seems to be following? Given the sheer stupidity of a large number of humans, the choice has to be *extremely* clear.

If there were evidence, it wouldn't exactly be free will, then, would it?

So what you are saying in summary is:
1. We must choose between two options.
2. There is zero evidence in favour of the correct option.
3. The correct option is so obvious that even stupid people can see it (despite the total lack of evidence).
4. Many people, including highly intelligent ones, get the answer wrong.

I think I am getting lost in your logic (if thats what it can be called).

Originally posted by KellyJay
What is better a mind that never knows if its right or one that thinks it is, the
result of what is better would be truth of a topic would it not? If God created
the universe and all in it, my belief in that event even fixed would be better
than someone's beliefs about the beginning that changes everytime they hear
a new idea.
Kelly

That sounds like a method of making you feel more secure, which is absolutely your right.I personally prefer a bit of uncertainty , it motivates me,and don't you enjoy discovering new things? I find the idea of something looking over my shoulder repressive.To accept a god is to accept limitations .

Originally posted by OdBod
That sounds like a method of making you feel more secure, which is absolutely your right.I personally prefer a bit of uncertainty , it motivates me,and don't you enjoy discovering new things? I find the idea of something looking over my shoulder repressive.To accept a god is to accept limitations .

There is nothing stopping me from enjoying new things, nor is there anything
stopping me from enjoying science, discovery is one of the best parts of life.
The difference between us is that you refuse to discover the greatest discovery
in life, you limit yourself to small parts of His handy work.
Kelly

Originally posted by twhitehead
So what you are saying in summary is:
1. We must choose between two options.
2. There is zero evidence in favour of the correct option.
3. The correct option is so obvious that even stupid people can see it (despite the total lack of evidence).
4. Many people, including highly intelligent ones, get the answer wrong.

I think I am getting lost in your logic (if thats what it can be called).

Feel the Force.

Faith is not a classroom exercise.

Originally posted by KellyJay
There is nothing stopping me from enjoying new things, nor is there anything
stopping me from enjoying science, discovery is one of the best parts of life.
The difference between us is that you refuse to discover the greatest discovery
in life, you limit yourself to small parts of His handy work.
Kelly

You see what I mean! You cannot communicate without without reference to a god or your bible, that is bringing preconceived non-negotiable beliefs to a discussion, and that is a limitation . As I said before religion is an intellectual prison.

Originally posted by Suzianne
[b]All I can say is if I were some kind of god I would never allow any of that to happen. A little voice in the ear, word to the wise or something and if that didn't do it, a tiny tear in a brain artery would take care of the situation.

If enough people started having brain bleeds they might get the hint.

This might seem reasonable to you, but yo ...[text shortened]... That's what free will is about, after all.

Still, the offer stands.[/b]

Wouldn't be much of a save, the last human now would it?

Originally posted by OdBod
You see what I mean! You cannot communicate without without reference to a god or your bible, that is bringing preconceived non-negotiable beliefs to a discussion, and that is a limitation . As I said before religion is an intellectual prison.

Oh please, give me a break in just about every post you have responded to me
you've brought up religon or God, examples:

"To accept a god is to accept limitations."
"Religion is an intellectual prison based on conformity and self preservation. There is no such thing as a religious open mind, EVERYTHING starts and finishes with a god. I on the other hand would change my view given evidence .I won't be holding my breath!"
"In the end ,all you have is one book and your feelings . I have many independent sources of information and logic to guide me. I am happy and can exist and prosper without religion .The reverse is not true you cannot survive without the things science and technology has provided."

I bring up God and now I'm so how less than, because I cannot communicate
without bringing up God? What is your excuse?
Kelly