22 Apr 13
Originally posted by KellyJayHow do you know god has always been? Got anything by way of evidence other than a bunch of tales from ancient times?
I never said you get God from nothing, I said God always was, is, and will be
the same. That takes out all need for a cause for God, which is not what we
have when it comes to all things within in the universe. Which brings me back
to my earlier point, science has nothing about the beginning yet people believe
or want to believe in this void of cause or reason anyway just to say God is not
required.
Kelly
If god needs no cause then I see no reason for the rest of the gubbins we call a universe to need a cause.
22 Apr 13
Originally posted by KellyJayWe say god is not required because we have no evidence for a god to start with. We also have no evidence that a cause is required. So as far as science is concerned god simply does not appear in the theories that describe the working of the universe. That is why Laplace said "I have no need of the god hypothesis" when asked by Napoleon why god did not appear in his book on celestial mechanics, Laplace simply didn't need a god to explain the motion of the planets. You will notice that this does not deny the possibility of a god or gods existing, it just says we don't need one currently to explain things.
I insist on calling faith what it is, and if you do not have anything at all to call
"this is how it was done" you do not have a leg to stand on dismissing God as
the cause! You don't have a cause, so to say God is not required is faith on
your part, due to for no reason other than He isn't something you want to
acknowledge, because you don't have anoth ...[text shortened]... uire this or that if you don't have a this or that to show what was more
likely.
Kelly
22 Apr 13
Originally posted by KellyJayNo, not at all. Scientists say we think this is the way things work based on evidence. We may well be wrong and will happily admit it if evidence comes to light to cause us to change our minds. It is possible your version is the right one but so far there is no evidence for that. If you want scientists to accept your version of events as true you must convince them by using their methods. Just insisting that science is wrong because you have faith will not work. The best you can hope for without evidence is to be ignored.
"If something better comes along that explains the cosmos, so be it, we go with the new evidence that supersedes the old. That by definition is not faith."
That is just someone saying I don't know if I'm right, but I know your wrong.
Kelly
22 Apr 13
Originally posted by KellyJayOK
Well God as I said isn't part of His creation, He is what He is. He was, is, and
always will be the same, this is not part of the universe's history as defined by
everyone who dates it. So what is applied to the universe is not an issue with
God.
Kelly
So you will be fine with this ;
The multiverse is not contained within our universe. It is what it is. It was, is,
and always will be in existence. It is not part of our universe's history. So what
is applied to the universe is not necessarily true of the multiverse.
22 Apr 13
Originally posted by KeplerYou can harp on if God is real or not, but bottom line you cannot dismiss God
How do you know god has always been? Got anything by way of evidence other than a bunch of tales from ancient times?
If god needs no cause then I see no reason for the rest of the gubbins we call a universe to need a cause.
out of hand because you have something better, because you do not when it
comes to where did everything come from. You don't even have a best guess
everyone agrees with to compare creation to. Which in my opinion really puts
a hole in the claims God is not real or required.
Kelly
22 Apr 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59You pushing a belief, a statement of fact, or just an argument?
OK
So you will be fine with this ;
The multiverse is not contained within our universe. It is what it is. It was, is,
and always will be in existence. It is not part of our universe's history. So what
is applied to the universe is not necessarily true of the multiverse.
Kelly
22 Apr 13
Originally posted by KeplerIf you start looking for explanations of the 'universe' of which you can see 0.00000...etc....0000...01% then god becomes a pretty good answer, the solar system an aliens clock another one.
How do you know god has always been? Got anything by way of evidence other than a bunch of tales from ancient times?
If god needs no cause then I see no reason for the rest of the gubbins we call a universe to need a cause.
And if there is no god, no other life of note. are we not god ourselves or combined? just a thought.
23 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayI have no idea if god is real or not. I have no need of a god to explain the observable universe so have not so far felt the need to use god as a cause for the universe. If I find any evidence that a superior being (not supernatural) caused our universe to exist then I will investigate how it works and where it came from. Until then, I don't bother gods and they don't bother me.
You can harp on if God is real or not, but bottom line you cannot dismiss God
out of hand because you have something better, because you do not when it
comes to where did everything come from. You don't even have a best guess
everyone agrees with to compare creation to. Which in my opinion really puts
a hole in the claims God is not real or required.
Kelly
23 Apr 13
Originally posted by KeplerI wish RHP had an Atheist Forum so you guy could have a forum of your own so we would not have to read your nonsense.
I have no idea if god is real or not. I have no need of a god to explain the observable universe so have not so far felt the need to use god as a cause for the universe. If I find any evidence that a superior being (not supernatural) caused our universe to exist then I will investigate how it works and where it came from. Until then, I don't bother gods and they don't bother me.
23 Apr 13
Originally posted by RJHindsI aint an atheist. Those critter deny the possibility of a god of any description. If a real god turned up tomorrow complete with "I'm a god! Worship me!" T-shirt they would still refuse to believe.
I wish RHP had an Atheist Forum so you guy could have a forum of your own so we would not have to read your nonsense.
I happily admit I have no idea whether or not a real god exists, I just haven't so far needed one to explain the workings of the universe. If I do happen to stumble on something that says unequivocally "God done this" then I will say so. I doubt that it will happen though, gods seem to be secretive critters which is exactly as it should be if they require faith rather than evidence as a basis for belief.
And you don't have to read my nonsense. As far as I am aware there is no way that you can be coerced into reading anything that I produce. I suggest that if you see my name, or the names of any of the others you dislike, you avert your eyes and go to the next post in the thread. I suspect it will be boring reading only your own posts though.
23 Apr 13
Originally posted by KeplerNonsense indeed! He loves reading his own posts, he feels they are the only important ones on RHP.
I aint an atheist. Those critter deny the possibility of a god of any description. If a real god turned up tomorrow complete with "I'm a god! Worship me!" T-shirt they would still refuse to believe.
I happily admit I have no idea whether or not a real god exists, I just haven't so far needed one to explain the workings of the universe. If I do happen to st ...[text shortened]... next post in the thread. I suspect it will be boring reading only your own posts though.
23 Apr 13
Originally posted by wolfgang59Never once did you ever see me write I had proof about creation or God. I
Just trying to show the absurdity of your argument.
Your "proof" of god is no more logical than my "proof" of a multiverse.
You must therefore (if logical) give both hypotheses equal weight.
have always maintained both are matters of beliefs\faith I maintain that is
all you have too. This would be true no matter what you bring as something to
be accepted by others.
As far as more logic goes you wish to say multiverse is eternal and the same
forever too, if so what changes to cause it to create this one? Do you have
cause for saying that, with God there is scripture. So what makes that
statement logical or acceptable?
KJ
23 Apr 13
Originally posted by KeplerFine so you accept all things came from nothing?
I have no idea if god is real or not. I have no need of a god to explain the observable universe so have not so far felt the need to use god as a cause for the universe. If I find any evidence that a superior being (not supernatural) caused our universe to exist then I will investigate how it works and where it came from. Until then, I don't bother gods and they don't bother me.
KJ
