05 Nov 08
Originally posted by epiphinehasOn the contrary, such a belief really betrays a complete lack of understanding as to the Bible in general, as well as the original languages in which it was written, because if you understood what has been erroneously translated as hell, you would not be promulgating such falsehood. that 'hell', as was evident in the discussion of the trinity is a man made pagan doctrine cannot be denied, as the ancient Egyptians, the Greeks and eventually so called Christianity were influenced by it.
If hell doesn't exist, then what was Jesus talking about when he warned people about it? Was Jesus imagining things? Was He merely exaggerating when He spoke of eternal torment and everlasting life? If hell is imaginary, is heaven also imaginary?
You and Raj have a lot of explaining to do.
but let us stick with english for the moment and a little history, for example, when the persecuted Bible translator, William Tyndale, made his translation of the Greek part of the original Bible, he said, in Matthew 11:23, according to his spelling in the year 1525: 'and thou Capernaum, which art lyft up unto heaven, shalt be brought doune to hell.' When Dr. Martin Luther translated those same greek scriptures into German in 1522, he used the similarly sounding German word 'hoelle,' but when the roman catholic saint jerome translated the same scriptures from common Greek into Latin, in 383 he used the word, infernus so the Italian poet of the fourteenth century, Dante Alighieri, wrote his famous poem entitled Divine Comedy and called the first part of it, 'Inferno,' he pictured the 'Inferno' as a deep pit with gradually contracting circles on which the condemned human souls suffered after the death of the body, thus the idea of a burning place of torture was born in the minds of individuals due to erroneuos translation of the original Greek and Hebrew words, an error which you yourself are advocating.
on the contrary it is not I or raj who has a lot of explaining to do but you, for how can it be, that if the wages of sin are death, read this again, that's right death, not eternal torment, not purgatory, not damnation, but plain and simple death, which the ancient record clearly states is a state of nothingness, no consciousness, no pain, no torment or suffering, zero, zilch, center of a doughnut, just so we get the point, DEATH IS A STATE OF UNCONSCIOUS NOTHINGNESS (Ecclesiastes chapter 9:5), and then you state, quite contrary to the inspired word of God that hell is a literal place, i dunno, you airheads have got a lot to answer for.
05 Nov 08
Originally posted by epiphinehaslol i also have had many an excellent discussion with them both, and the term was used in jest, you know, fun and laughter just messin around, perhaps you don't, anyhow thanks for judging me 'Jesus', before you knew anything about the scenario, its just like you guys to try and judge others by your own prejudice, after all, you guys have made self righteousness into almost an art form.
Whether or not you agree with knightmeister or thinkofone, you have no right to call either of them airheads. I've had discussions with both and I find your characterization woefully inaccurate.
What is plain is that your theology is as corrupt as your "Christlikeness".
Where is your fruit? Where are your grapes and figs? Or are you merely a thornbush and a thistle?
i can hear you know, 'oh thankyou lord jesus that i am not like those tax collectors and sinners robbie carrobie and raj,'
05 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI tell you Robbie, these guys have too much feminine genes. No sense of humour, too easily offended and soft in the middle 🙂
lol i also have had many an excellent discussion with them both, and the term was used in jest, you know, fun and laughter just messin around, perhaps you don't, anyhow thanks for judging me 'Jesus', before you knew anything about the scenario, its just like you guys to try and judge others by your own prejudice, after all, you guys have made self ri ...[text shortened]... ou lord jesus that i am not like those tax collectors and sinners robbie carrobie and raj,'
06 Nov 08
Maybe I'm missing something here but what the Hell is this talking about? LOL maybe it a mis-translation or something but sure sounds like a place like Hell seems disturbing enough. From Luke 16
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to
Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
Manny
06 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou display a remarkable lack of biblical understanding for one who claims to be so well-versed. That your views are so obviously heretical explains a great deal about your behavior, frankly.
On the contrary, such a belief really betrays a complete lack of understanding as to the Bible in general, as well as the original languages in which it was written, because if you understood what has been erroneously translated as hell, you would not be promulgating such falsehood. that 'hell', as was evident in the discussion of the trinity is a m ...[text shortened]... God that hell is a literal place, i dunno, you airheads have got a lot to answer for.
Indeed the wages of sin are death. If you were worth your salt at Bible exegesis, then you might have understood that this verse (Rom. 6:23) refers to both a physical and a spiritual death. Obviously, all men die, but what the New Testament reveals is that all men shall be resurrected in order to face judgment. The condemnation to eternal torment is called the "second death".
"The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14-15). "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46).
It's quite telling that you are ignorant of one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity, which is the resurrection of the dead. Yes, death is a state of unconscious nothingness, right up until the moment God brings you back to life in order to be judged.
What in the Bible aren't you willing to disregard?
06 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI suppose the "airhead" remark in your last post was in jest as well? Give me a break. I see through your game. Christ commanded his followers to recognize false prophets by their fruits, and so far the only fruits I've gathered from you have been insults and slander. Tell me why that is, RC.
lol i also have had many an excellent discussion with them both, and the term was used in jest, you know, fun and laughter just messin around, perhaps you don't, anyhow thanks for judging me 'Jesus', before you knew anything about the scenario, its just like you guys to try and judge others by your own prejudice, after all, you guys have made self ri ...[text shortened]... ou lord jesus that i am not like those tax collectors and sinners robbie carrobie and raj,'
i can hear you know, 'oh thankyou lord jesus that i am not like those tax collectors and sinners robbie carrobie and raj,'
I'm no more or less a sinner than either of you. But it is true that I don't envy your willingness to embrace heretical beliefs.
06 Nov 08
Originally posted by Rajk999What is so funny about calling someone an "airhead"?
I tell you Robbie, these guys have too much feminine genes. No sense of humour, too easily offended and soft in the middle 🙂
Having a sense of humor does not mean a person will laugh at anything.
I'm not offended by non-Christians who hurl insults, but I am offended by those who claim to be Christians who hurl insults (even in jest). It's unbecoming of a serious-minded Christian man, of someone who understands the sorrow of the cross and his part in it. And furthermore, considering the absolute seriousness of the work which Christ has charged his followers to do in spreading His Gospel message, such behavior belies a woeful lack of respect for Christ Himself and the serious work which He engaged in.
06 Nov 08
Originally posted by epiphinehashaha, what a hypocrite, the very thing you are accusing others of doing you yourself are guilty of, accusing others of disregarding biblical verse, tell me please oh learned one, why you make no mention of the verse at Ecclesiastes 9:5, wait, ill say it for you, because it completely destroys any notion that death is anything other than a state of unconsciousness, thus rendering all your misconception and inherited error baseless. it is just like an airhead to pick and choose which portions of verse best suit his prejudices rather than examining the scriptures in a truly objective fashion, to wit, if you have anything to say on the historical use of the word hell and its subsequent erroneous translation from the original languages then lets hear it, also if you have anything to say with regard to the verse quoted, then lets hear it, otherwise stop talking nonsense and accusing others of heresy, the very thing you yourself are guilty of! you offspring of vipers you!
You display a remarkable lack of biblical understanding for one who claims to be so well-versed. That your views are so obviously heretical explains a great deal about your behavior, frankly.
Indeed the wages of sin are death. If you were worth your salt at Bible exegesis, then you might have understood that this verse (Rom. 6:23) refers to both a p ...[text shortened]... ife in order to be judged.
What in the Bible aren't you willing to disregard?
06 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieEccl. 9:5 certainly does not indicate what you claim it does. "No further reward" may just as well refer to that which one might gain during life. After all, the context of the passage is the contrasting of the living and the dead.
haha, what a hypocrite, the very thing you are accusing others of doing you yourself are guilty of, accusing others of disregarding biblical verse, tell me please oh learned one, why you make no mention of the verse at Ecclesiastes 9:5, wait, ill say it for you, because it completely destroys any notion that death is anything other than a state of un ...[text shortened]... cusing others of heresy, the very thing you yourself are guilty of! you offspring of vipers you!
Eccl. 9:5 certainly does not negate the revelation found in the New Testament that the dead shall rise on the last day, nor inherited sinfulness. To claim as much belies a tragic exegetical imbalance.
Furthermore, your spiel about mistranslation is moot considering we have access to the original Greek manuscripts.
06 Nov 08
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieChrist said something similar when he referred to a child that died as someone who simply "sleeps". Having said that, John, in Revelation, then shows that both the righteous and unrighteous will be "awakened" as both are resurrected. Then we see two distinct fates after both resurrections.
DEATH IS A STATE OF UNCONSCIOUS NOTHINGNESS (Ecclesiastes chapter 9:5), and then you state, quite contrary to the inspired word of God that hell is a literal place, i dunno, you airheads have got a lot to answer for.[/b]
06 Nov 08
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71Manny dude, i am in the very process of elucidating on those very texts, soon all will be revealed for your enlightenment and understanding, for it is a very noble disposition that you have, for Christ himself stated that happy are those who hunger for truth and righteousness - regards Robbie,
I don't mean to be flippant but I was just wondering what those verses were about? 🙂
Manny
p.s. watch this space 😀
06 Nov 08
Originally posted by whodeynot only the child my friend, but Lazarus his good friend also,. the argument here is not whether there is a resurrection, because quite clearly this is a fundamental tenet of Christianity, the confusion has arisen because persons want to try to have us believe that the common grave of mankind translated from Hebrew and Greek words Gehenna and Hades refer to a place of torment, which is essentially not only nonsense, but also completely out of character with the revealed personality of God and Christ, cannot be substantiated scripturely, has arisen not only due to errors of translation historically, but is also a pagan doctrine as can be seen when one examines other pre christian religions.
Christ said something similar when he referred to a child that died as someone who simply "sleeps". Having said that, John, in Revelation, then shows that both the righteous and unrighteous will be "awakened" as both are resurrected. Then we see two distinct fates after both resurrections.
06 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo even though John in Revelation decribed the second death following the resurrection of the unrighteous as "torment" you give no credence for such teachings? Do you find Revelation to be heretical to your theology?
not only the child my friend, but Lazarus his good friend also,. the argument here is not whether there is a resurrection, because quite clearly this is a fundamental tenet of Christianity, the confusion has arisen because persons want to try to have us believe that the common grave of mankind translated from Hebrew and Greek words Gehenna and Hades ...[text shortened]... y, but is also a pagan doctrine as can be seen when one examines other pre christian religions.