Honest Self-Criticism

@FMF

Does honest self-criticism have a spiritual dimension? Can honest self-criticism modify or steer one's spiritual outlook?

@sonship said
I don't think anyone with an unregenerated human spirit can truly know himself. Regardless how introspective or self effacing they be, it is only in God's light that we can really know something of what we really are.

@FMF

If you sincerely believe that you cannot know yourself without your religious beliefs then I suggest, strongly, that you should perhaps cling to those beliefs as hard as you can because without them you might have some kind of mental breakdown.

From my point of view, if you should happen to lose your faith, I think you will then realize that the belief that "anyone with an unregenerated human spirit cannot truly know himself" was just a bit of highly subjective and reductionist religious dogma and that it didn't have any objectively valid substance.

I have trusted Him for eternal life.
I am learning that if He is faithful to eternity He certainly can be trusted for
temporal successive challenges that the quality of the product may be
demonstrated to be valuable. And the roots of trust can grow deeper and deeper
drawing up into the heart more and more of His divine nature.

Plenty has happened to me already that tested the durability of my trust in Jesus.

If you should ever find you have lost your faith, I believe you will realize that asserting things like

"...it is only in God's light that we can really know something of what we really are..."

was evidence that you'd been caught up in some kind of psychological syndrome where your religious belief had landed you with a very narrow, groupist perspective on your identity and personhood.

@sonship said
Those are your words. I said that I don't believe anyone can truly know themselves apart from the light of God. I'll use my own vocabulary thanks.

I wrote above that I don't think a person with an un-regenerated human spirit can truly know himself. Here is some further explanation.

The human spirit is distinct from the human soul.
Man is composed of three parts - spirit and soul and body.

"And the God of peace sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess. 5:23)

Three parts are mentioned. We should think of it as within the body is the soul. And deeper still, within the soul is the human spirit.

Now this spirit of man is called "the lamp of Jehovah" or "the lamp of the Lord" which enlightens to God and man the inward parts of man.

"The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, searching all the innermost parts of the inner being." (Proverbs 20:27)

For maximum enlightenment within a man the human spirit - "the lamp of Jehovah" has to be functioning normally. Then the innermost parts of a man's being are illumined to his knowledge, sense, and consciousness to the greatest degree.

(I will be repeating some things as I elaborate further)

The human spirit in the created man must be undamaged for it to function as the illuminating lamp of the Lord enlightening one's true condition in God's light. This is more penetrating and knowing then mere introspection even if it is honest to the best of one's ability.

@FMF

I will respond with the vocabulary that I think most honestly and candidly engages the claims you make.

The spirit of man, I showed is called "the lamp of Jehovah". And the human spirit's function includes to illuminate all the innermost parts of the inner being of man.

"The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, Searching all the innermost parts of the inner being." (Proverbs 20:24)

Along with this verse we are told that the spirit God places in man (the human spirit) also "gives them understanding". This does not mean has no mental understanding of anything apart from a normal human spirit. It means in the realm of knowing the things concerning himself deeply.

"But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding." (Job 32:8) .

The human spirit is something out of God, very close to God, "breathed" into man which function was to [give] them understanding.

FMF will think that this is just my group talking. But I would tell you that this is the revelation from God in His word. Two critical matters concerning man understanding himself:

1.) The human spirit is "the lamp of Jehovah" illuminating man's innermost being.

2.) The human spirit is "the breath of the Almighty" giving man certain understanding, especially of his closeness or distance from God who is the ground of being and the final reality.

Taken these two axioms above I add that the Apostle Paul said that only the spirit of man knows the things of man (in this spiritual sense).

"For who among men knows the things of man, except the spirit of man which is in him? In the same way, the things of God also no one has known except the Spirit of God." (1 Cor. 2:11)

God is triune and man is tripartite.
And without the normal functioning of the human spirit the things of man, particularly the innermost spiritual condition of man, cannot be known by man. So I believe that the man with an unregenerated human spirit cannot know some critical things in his inner being. He may however have some honest self-criticism on a soulish level.

I wish that FMF posted in the Debate forum -- it would give us a lot more golden interactions.

@Philokalia

I do not mean to put down "honest self-criticism". Honest self criticism is not a bad thing. It is a humble thing for one to carry out from time to time.

But, I said that I do not think a man who is not born again, not regenerated can know himself in the deeper way. I will be repeating and building upon this statement. That's my way.

Remember:
The spirit of man is distinct from the soul.
The spirit of man is called the lamp of the Lord to search and illume us inwardly.
The spirit of man is something given out by God to give us understanding.
No one knows the deepest things of man except the spirit of man within
him.

I provided verses for all these statements. Now the Bible says something about the heart of man. It says that it is desperately wicked and WHO can know it? God alone knows this deceitful heart in realism. We are self deceived even though we may involved in some healthy self-criticism.

Right here:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, And it is incurable; Who can know it?

I, Jehovah, search the heart and test the inward parts, even to give to each one
according to his ways, according to the fruits of his deeds." (Jeremiah 17:9,10)

What is the heart I will show shortly. But we do not know how deceitful our heart is. That is every human heart of every fallen human being. The heart is a combination of one part of the spirit and three parts of the soul. The heart is the mind, the emotion, the will, PLUS the conscience. The conscience is in the spirit. The mind, emotion and will are in the soul.

So self-criticism can be very good. So then why does God bother us with the need for anything more?

We don't know how far man has fallen into sin. We only know something of how far we have become abnormal when we are put up beside the Son of God.

Jesus seems to us to be a supernatural enigma. But actually Jesus Christ represents normality. I mean Jesus Christ represents what God meant in the first place by human being. We do not believe this. We often do not WANT to believe this.

Regardless, some honest self-criticism is good up to our standard.
It is not enough according to God's standard. I am sorry. He has the last say.

Jesus spoke of the things proceeding out of the heart that defile every one of us.

"But the things which proceed out of the mouth come out of the heart, and those defile the man.

For out of the heart come evil reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witnessings, blasphemies.

These are the things which defile the man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile the man." (Matt. 15:18-20)

We do not realize to what extent we have fallen from normality and into sin.
We do not count seriously these sins.
And we do not know well how deceitful and incurable our fallen heart is.

@philokalia said
I wish that FMF posted in the Debate forum -- it would give us a lot more golden interactions.

@sonship said
We do not realize to what extent we have fallen from normality and into sin.
We do not count seriously these sins.
And we do not know well how deceitful and incurable our fallen heart is.