How can a "bad" God send people to heaven?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
The bible is merely a book. All that is evidence of is the fact that someone wrote a book. Or perhaps "the lord of the rings" is evidence of hobbits?

No, the Bible is 66 different books, with about 40 different authors,
written over a time period I don’t recall exactly, but I think around
1.5K years from the first one to the last, that covers more than
a few subjects. It is more than just 'merely a book' and I'd point out
that much of what men learn they do from just books, so even a
book is something. If you want to suggest we get no truth from books
I'd laugh at you, do you really want to go down that path?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I thought you called the Bible evidence?
Kelly

How could you possibly say that the bible is evidence for anything??? 😉 who wrote the bible?...people?...do people never make things up?...perhaps you think it is the word of God then, or Jesus etc... but who's telling you that it's their words?...again people!...whats stopping them from being mistaken...that all the things back in ancient times they did not understand was not necessarily to consequence of some divine power!...what if they just sold a couple of hundred people some story about God and it stopped them from asking annoying questions...what if the people who had been told this then went off and told their friends...who then passed this on to their children and so on. We are now at a stage where millions of people follow some organised religion of sorts but everything they know is based on hearsay

Originally posted by Agerg
How could you possibly say that the bible is evidence for anything??? 😉 who wrote the bible?...people?...do people never make things up?...perhaps you think it is the word of God then, or Jesus etc... but who's telling you taht it's their words?...again people!

The Bible, in fact, is the ONLY religious text to have a scientific discipline based upon it which is Biblical Archaeology. Bunch of made up stories huh?

Originally posted by whodey
The Bible, in fact, is the ONLY religious text to have a scientific discipline based upon it which is Biblical Archaeology. Bunch of made up stories huh?

Bunch of made up stories...hmm, Moses parting the Red sea...so Whodey just how does this phenominon occur in our world these days?...or what about fitting 2 of every animal in an ark and then having it rain for forty days and night...wow! bloody strong ark and a lot of water!...and well done Noah for being such a good communicator with animals

I haven't read the bible but spent long enough in childhood having it ramned down my throat so if your argument is just to throw at me some wild excerpts from this tome of nonsense then so be it...you'd win by virtue of my ignorance here...in spite of this I severely doubt that any of the *science* contained within is more advanced than what I could read about in the "Daily Star" (no...before you ask, that is not my read of choice 😀)

and they have archaeologists on the case eh?...ah well then it must be true!

suppose I made up a new science based on ascertaining the truth of Flying hobgoblins? and made up a book called hmm... the "Hobgobble"? then I could say that the Hobgobble, in fact, is the ONLY flying hobgoblin text to have a scientific discipline based upon it which is HobGoblinology. Bunch of made up storeies huh?

Originally posted by Agerg
How could you possibly say that the bible is evidence for anything??? 😉 who wrote the bible?...people?...do people never make things up?...perhaps you think it is the word of God then, or Jesus etc... but who's telling you that it's their words?...again people!...whats stopping them from being mistaken...that all the things back in ancient times they did not ...[text shortened]... of people follow some organised religion of sorts but everything they know is based on hearsay

Are you taking up Scotts argument, that books do not teach us
anything and are meaningless? The written word is powerful all
of our history is found in the written word, unless you count things
that we have to guess at. A book is something, it isn't nothing,
and to call a book nothing simply displays your unwillingness to
acknowledge there is something we can call evidence. You may
not agree with what it suggests, but you still have to deal with it.
Kelly

Originally posted by Agerg
Bunch of made up stories...hmm, Moses parting the Red sea...so Whodey just how does this phenominon occur in our world these days?...or what about fitting 2 of every animal in an ark and then having it rain for forty days and night...wow! bloody strong ark and a lot of water!...and well done Noah for being such a good communicator with animals

I haven't rea ...[text shortened]... tific discipline based upon it which is HobGoblinology. Bunch of made up storeies huh?[/i]

Why don't read a book on physics, history, some level of math, we
aquire a lot of knowledge from books depending on how and why
it was written. If you are going to attempt an insult by bringing in
a reference to another book, try to come up with something someone
else hasn't used or give them credit.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are you taking up Scotts argument, that books do not teach us
anything and are meaningless? The written word is powerful all
of our history is found in the written word, unless you count things
that we have to guess at. A book is something, it isn't nothing,
and to call a book nothing simply displays your unwillingness to
acknowledge there is something ...[text shortened]... evidence. You may
not agree with what it suggests, but you still have to deal with it.
Kelly

At what point kellyJay did I say that books are meaningless and do not teach us anything? (for that matter when did even Scottishinz say this?) does the fact that I think the Bible is a load of nonsense imply that I think *all* books are nonsense?

Apart from the fact that I do study maths (albeit learning at home from guess what?...books!) and science...how does this tie in with your argument that the Bible is truth?

Finally, I'm taking up my own argument...though I agree with scottishinz's point of view here...that we are using similar lines of attack is because your reliance upon the bible's truth by assuming it so to make further statements has a blatant weakness!

perhaps I could disprove your God by writing 2 books stating there are only even numbers, and that all logic other than which is contained within this book or offered by me is flawed, suppose I simply tell you that its true...obviously I wouldn't have to prove it (by yours and every other bible readers reasoning) and you couldn't disprove it either...you'd have to present an argument that could bring this statement down. An illogical one wouldn't work obviously and a logical one would fail by virtue of me saying that it is flawed from the very beginning...well I could then just go on to say: lets assume there is a God...1 god! 1 is not an even number...therefore there cannot be 1 god, we have a contradiction...There is no god! what could possibly be wrong with this argument?

Originally posted by Agerg
At what point kellyJay did I say that books are meaningless and do not teach us anything? (for that matter when did even Scottishinz say this?) does the fact that I think the Bible is a load of nonsense imply that I think *all* books are nonsense?

Apart from the fact that I do study maths (albeit learning at home from guess what?...books!) and science...ho ...[text shortened]... a contradiction...There is no god![/i] what could possibly be wrong with this argument?

"How could you possibly say that the bible is evidence for anything??? who wrote the bible?...people?...do people never make things up?...perhaps you think it is the word of God then, or Jesus etc... but who's telling you that it's their words?...again people!...whats stopping them from being mistaken...that all the things back in ancient times they did not understand was not necessarily to consequence of some divine power!...what if they just sold a couple of hundred people some story about God and it stopped them from asking annoying questions...what if the people who had been told this then went off and told their friends...who then passed this on to their children and so on. We are now at a stage where millions of people follow some organised religion of sorts but everything they know is based on hearsay"

At what point did you say books are meaningless, when you said it was
people who wrote the Bible, and that was the reason to not believe it. I
got news for you, people have written all books on all other topics I
brought up too, if you are going to dismiss the 66 books because
people wrote them, you have smeared all other books too. Who tells
us what books should be believed and rejected, why it is again
people! So now if people have any input on what we should believe or
disbelieve in any book that makes all of those books suspect too? I
doubt you meant to imply such things, but if you are going to say that
all the books of the Bible are meaningless you better come up with
other reasons for doing so than the fact that people had a hand in
the writing of them. All history, even modern history has people telling
other people what to believe, again it is people. You are gong to have
to pick and choose on more than the fact that people are involved, it
is unavoidable when it comes to the written word of any text save the
10 Commandments or something else God wrote or writes with his
own hand.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, the Bible is 66 different books, with about 40 different authors,
written over a time period I don’t recall exactly, but I think around
1.5K years from the first one to the last, that covers more than
a few subjects. It is more than just 'merely a book' and I'd point out
that much of what men learn they do from just books, so even a
book is somethi ...[text shortened]... e get no truth from books
I'd laugh at you, do you really want to go down that path?
Kelly

The bible was not written over 1,500 years. 300 at most. The dead sea scrolls were written 150BC at most. The bible is a collection of fables, interpreted in different ways. It's easy to explain it's evolution should one actually care enough.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
The bible was not written over 1,500 years. 300 at most. The dead sea scrolls were written 150BC at most. The bible is a collection of fables, interpreted in different ways. It's easy to explain it's evolution should one actually care enough.

The Bible is a series of 66 books that were written by at least 40 different authors, in many lands and under many different circumstances. Yet it is entirely consistent on many highly contoversial issues. This alone indicates miraculous inspiration from God.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
The bible was not written over 1,500 years. 300 at most. The dead sea scrolls were written 150BC at most. The bible is a collection of fables, interpreted in different ways. It's easy to explain it's evolution should one actually care enough.

I believe many think the book of Job is one of the oldest if not the
oldest, and the last of the NT was the book of Revelation if I'm not
mistaken, and you think there was only 300 years between those two
books when they were written? Where are you getting your facts?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
At what point did you say books are meaningless, when you said it was
people who wrote the Bible, and that was the reason to not believe it. I
got news for you, people have written all books on all other topics I
brought up too, if you are going to dismiss the 66 books because
people wrote them, you have smeared all other books too. Who tells
us what ...[text shortened]... y text save the
10 Commandments or something else God wrote or writes with his
own hand.
Kelly

A strong attack Kelly, I'll give you that but anyway...suppose I'm working through say... a calculus textbook, I don't just read it and then pretend I understand or even *believe* what the author is telling me! no, I get out my pencil and paper and work through it. I look for ways not only to prove what the author is saying but to either discredit my own doubts or the assertions made by the book, I want to know where certain ideas evolved from, why they were formulated ...I don't just believe what I have been told until I have had satisfaction that there can be no other way.

If I'm working through say...a mechanics textbook book I don't simply believe everything I have been told! again, I want to test it! I answer the problems and perform a few simple tests out of sheer curiosity (try to find discrepancies)...I can look around and see that though some of the tests I want to perform are a bit adventurous, the fact that certain things work (as opposed to not work) is strong evidence to support the idea that there is a lot of truth behind the knowledge I am acquiring.

How can this approach be applied to the bible?...how can its integrity be tested?...what else can you do but blindly take on trust the idea that someone called Jesus walked on water, a being you refer to as a god watches over us...Exactly how should I go about and try to get some satisfaction with these claims?
This what I mean when I say it has been written by people...when I ask "how do they know?" I am alluding to the fact that these opinions have not been backed up in anyway that is remotely testable by myself or anyone else (and if you say that some poeple have had such experience, nothing is said about how I could test beyond all doubt (on my part) the truth of their claims)...I satirize the ideas by talking about flying elephants, invisible leprechauns etc...because by arguing such points on the same level as you argue the bible, you would have to expose strong weaknesses in your own arguments in order to suggest how ridiculous mine are!