"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?"

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
As always, dive, I respect your right to disagree and to promote points of view diametrically opposed to what I have learned from pastor/teachers who teach from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek Languages in which the scripture was written.

Thank you for that, it feels personal this arguing, but as we mostly understand, arguments here are just ... arguments here.

Nevertheless, you are now doing what robbie carrobie does when feeling penned on a point, referring to higher temporal authority and ancient text. It's a bolt-hole in which you may find temporary solace on this matter, but when you emerge I shall be waiting old chum .

🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Someone says that to me? Then follow it up with some examples .. like I did. Then I would have something to defend.

But doctrine is doctrine. It doesn't need defending. If it could be defended it wouldn't need to be called doctrine.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But doctrine is doctrine. It doesn't need defending. If it could be defended it wouldn't need to be called doctrine.

You sound like a preacher there t. 😉

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But doctrine is doctrine. It doesn't need defending. If it could be defended it wouldn't need to be called doctrine.

But it should be supported. Hence there is something called man-made doctrine and we have doctrine of Christ, doctrine of the Apostles, doctrine of the Catholics etc.

Originally posted by Rajk999
But it should be supported. Hence there is something called man-made doctrine and we have doctrine of Christ, doctrine of the Apostles, doctrine of the Catholics etc.

Supported by scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Originally posted by josephw
Supported by scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Exactly. Your belief that all whose names are not in the book of life will be tormented eternally is unscriptural. Those will be cast into the lake of fire according to Revelation. If you want to take it literaly then dont add to it. The eternal torment is for the beast, the false prophet and the devil.

The doctrine of immortality of the soul is unscriptural .. not in the Bible.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Exactly. Your belief that all whose names are not in the book of life will be tormented eternally is unscriptural. Those will be cast into the lake of fire according to Revelation. If you want to take it literaly then dont add to it. The eternal torment is for the beast, the false prophet and the devil.

The doctrine of immortality of the soul is unscriptural .. not in the Bible.

Do this and live the law demands
But gives me neither feet nor hands
A better way the gospel brings
It bids me fly and gives me wings

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
The older you get the more unlearning is required to learn; and it's damn painful, because it entails admitting to yourself that you had it sideways or backwards wrong all those years. The moment of truth is nonetheless desirable.

These words of yours encapsulate very well what it was like to shed erroneous beliefs that'd had me professing to be a Christian for decades ~ although the idea that it was "damn painful" for me is rather exaggerated. I have a feeling that you were in fact just trying to be condescending. If so, you have inadvertently hit the nail on the head. 🙂

Originally posted by divegeester
Thank you for that, it feels personal this arguing, but as we mostly understand, arguments here are just ... arguments here.

Nevertheless, you are now doing what robbie carrobie does when feeling penned on a point, referring to higher temporal authority and ancient text. It's a bolt-hole in which you may find temporary solace on this matter, but when you emerge I shall be waiting old chum .

🙂

Your sense of "... mostly understand" is mutual, divegeester. Sans Dieu Rien.

Originally posted by divegeester
Once again I don't fundamentally disagree with what you posted. But once again nothing of what you posted addresses my point of you believing in a version of god who has created a place where he can and will watch billions of people being tortured for all eternity.

Where will you be while all this is going on?

God didn't create Hell for us, but many will end up there.
I'm sure God will see the suffering, I'm not sure about us.
Kelly

Matthew 25:
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Originally posted by divegeester
Can you explain specifically (not just, "I'm a sinner" ) what you have done in your life that would warrant you being placed in a flesh melting incinerator for all eternity?

I don't think you grasp sin, I'm assuming by your line of questions that you
think most people are not that bad? The standard of right and wrong is not
with us completely though we will play a part in it, but with God. So how
bad is okay and how good is good enough that God must accept a sinner?
It isn't up to us, it isn't our kingdom, we didn't create this place, we do not
hold it together by the power of our own words. So if God judges and finds
fault and say and this is what I'm going to do with it, it is His kingdom and
He will act as He sees fit, not us.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
Indeed, you say "people can make all the claims they want". So just to be clear rather than wishy washy, do you claim to be a Christian? Do myou concede that, if later you lose you faith, the claim you make now will have been untrue?

Yes, if I were to turn my back on God I'd be a liar like you.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
If I can butt in, I agree with you on this Kelly, but the key in terms of debate (not reality) is perception. FMF as you say, may have believed he was saved, but wasn't. Or he may have been saved and now believes he isn't, but was and is just awy from god. Or he believes it is irrelevant, but it isn't or it is . One of these 3 is true.

He has said he was a Christian like me, God was in his life through Jesus
Christ, now he claims that isn't so. So if reality is nothing but his opinion
than he can change his opinion as he sees fit; however, what he has done
is at one time make a claim God was in his life though Jesus Christ, that is
now denied so it could have never been true. He may make the claim, he
so desires to have all other believes admit we are just like he is, but I do
not acknowledge that! If his reality is now and always without God though
Jesus Christ than when he was making those claims they were not real.

He wants it both ways! He wants to say Jesus was in his life, and never
was at the same time.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, if I were to turn my back on God I'd be a liar like you.

How am I a liar?

Originally posted by KellyJay
what [FMF] has done is at one time make a claim God was in his life though Jesus Christ, that is now denied so it could have never been true.

Do you really not understand what it means for someone's beliefs to change? If we go back 20 years, the reality in my life at that time was that I believed that "God was in [my] life though Jesus Christ" just as you believe that 'God is in your life though Jesus Christ' now.