How many were crucified with Jesus?

Originally posted by chancremechanic
get educated before spewing your anti-Bible crap....

I would, but all dem scary professors got me confused with
their crazy talk!

Originally posted by chancremechanic
You are a liar...'nuf said

And you are ignorant of both your country and your religion.

'nuf said.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by The Chess Express
As I said you miss the point entirely.[/b]

Here is your point: Jesus was remarkable because he did miracles.

My response: Not true. Lots of people were reported as doing miracles.

Your point: Jesus was remarkable because he rose from the dead.

My response: Not true. Lots of people were reported as ri ...[text shortened]... s would crumble. Your mind is closed to any additional
truths, mine remains opened.

Nemesio[/b]

Here is your point: Jesus was remarkable because he did miracles.
My response: Not true. Lots of people were reported as doing miracles.
Your point: Jesus was remarkable because he rose from the dead.
My response: Not true. Lots of people were reported as rising from the dead.

You're not following the stream here: There is one thing that separates Jesus
from these 'lots of people.' It's not the miracles and it's not the rising from
the dead.

No, you are not following the stream. Jesus is remarkable because of the purpose that God sent him to earth. He is remarkable for what he accomplished, and for what he continues to accomplish. The miracles are a big part of that. You don’t accept this, and so your understanding of the truth is limited to your human logic.

RBHILL has said that Roman Catholics are Mary-worshiping idol mongers and
that they falsely label themselves as Christians. This is hardly a 'share of
differences.' One group explicitly states that another group is going to hell.
To claim any sort of spiritual unity between the two is absurd (and, remember,
Roman Catholics comprise about half of the 2 billion you cited).

I think people predict that Islam will over take Christianity in about 15 years
(as a percentage of the population). Will you concede that Mohammed had
a bigger impact than Jesus when this happens (keep in mind that he started
600+ years later!)?

This shows how little you know of what’s actually going on in the world. We are currently at war over the differences in Islam.

I don’t know too many Christians who are likely to convert to Islam, and Catholics are Christians as well. They don’t worship idols, they worship God. Marry is a reminder of God to them as Jesus is a reminder of God to other Christians. You don’t see Christian blowing themselves up to kill as many innocent tax payers as possible.

Of course they are! What good is miracles? They benefit the body. Who cares?!
The body is going to die. It's the things that develop the spirit that matter.

Wrong, Jesus told us that he who saves his body but rejects God will not go to Heaven. The miracles have everything to do with peoples faith and spirit. Take the example of Saul being converted to Paul. In a miracle Jesus converted the biggest persecutor of Christians to a saint in a few sentences.

The miracles that Jesus performed form a foundation for many peoples faith. You somehow claim that the crucifixion was unremarkable and/or irrelevant. This shows just how little you understand of Christianity.

I don't claim to have answers. However, I can eliminate amongst lots of false ones.

Answers aren’t necessarily false just because they don’t make sense to you. This is a point you should consider.

Of course you don't assume that the parables are based on actual events. My question was does the fact that the Prodigal Son was a contrived story detract in any way from its powerful message?

If it did then why would Jesus have told parables? The morals that can be gained by such parables are the tip of the iceberg, and yet you want to believe that they are the ultimate truth. There is a lot more to Jesus and Christianity then morals.

Yes. And you are putting your trust in things of this world: history. But, when you say 'You will never make a convincing argument' you demonstrate your closed-mindedness. You show to the world that you fear a rupture in your faith. I have no such fears, because my faith cannot be shattered by anything in this world, because my faith is in things which are not part of this world.

Yes, your faith is in your own human logic.

Your mind is closed to any additional truths, mine remains opened.

This is not true. If it were true I could never expect to make progress. The Bible is more than just a guidebook of morals. This is an additional truth you should consider.

Originally posted by chancremechanic
You are ignorant! Jesus' ability to raise himself up from the dead made it possible for all Christians to follow him upon death. Jesus conquered death on the cross..."oh death, where is thy sting?" get educated before spewing your anti-Bible crap....

The thing is, is that you can't prove that Jesus did have the ability to raise himself from the dead, contrary to that we can't prove that he didn't. The basic problem is that you believe that Jesus had some special powers, whilst we believe that he was just an ordinary human being. One thing we do know is that Jesus was born of woman, mary, so he must have been human.
I don't know what the current population of the earth is, shall we say 8 billion people. How many of them have the same powers as Jesus? I think we can both agree none. This is a very powerful indication that human beings don't possess such powers. Statistically Jesus has vastly more chance of being ordinary rather than possessing any magical powers.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
That’s not exactly true. Medicine considers it a miracle when patients respond to the medicine.

Example: When somebody like Lance Armstrong overcomes cancer it is considered a miracle.

None of Armstrong’s doctors told him be rid of cancer and it was so. They prescribed medicine, and the road to recovery was long and arduous.
...[text shortened]... happens. Show me a doctor who dies and comes back to life after three days, walks on water, etc.

I've seen magicians like David Copperfield walk on water, in fact he has can even float in the air and disappear. David Blaine, Derren Brown can look into a persons eyes and tell them what they are thinking. But these arn't magical power, they are just tricks of their trade. Sai Baba has fooled enough people with his basic conjuroring tricks, plucking objects out of thin air, enough to have over 100,000 followers, who is to say that Jesus wasn't the same ?
Plus even I could could feed 5000 people with 5 loafs of bread & two fish, if those fish were say a couple of blue whales.
My point is that there is also a rational explainations for such things, as well the biblical supernatural explaination. Utlimately you can believe one or believe the other. Regardless of this Jesus's basic teachings won't change, you could still follow his love the neighbour, or turn the other cheek philosophy as good ethical principles in there own right.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
I don’t know too many Christians who are likely to convert to Islam, and Catholics are Christians as well. They don’t worship idols, they worship God. Marry is a reminder of God to them as Jesus is a reminder of God to other Christians. You don’t see Christian blowing themselves up to kill as many innocent tax payers as possible.

I think many Muslims would disagree that these suicide bombers are following a true Islamic path. Also this arguement is a bit weak because Christain history has an equal number of such examples of barbaric violent behavour, all carried out in the name of Christainity.

Originally posted by Nemesio
The person who [b]needs the Bible to be literally true at all times is
by definition blinded to all other arguments.

I have no problem with any one part of the Bible's being true, or any one
part of its being false.

That is not blindness. That is opened-mindedness to revelation and Truth.

Nemesio[/b]

Since true is true - literally true is redundant. It's like say very unique. It's either unique or it's not unique. It's either true or it's false.

One can classify a truth as literal or figurative or metaphorical or... Please note I said "literal" and not "literally".

Don't confuse saying Scripture is inerrant or true, with one saying all of the Bible is literal truth. This would be making a strawman argument. He's easy to knock down because you build him that way.

Originally posted by Jay Peatea
I've seen magicians like David Copperfield walk on water, in fact he has can even float in the air and disappear. David Blaine, Derren Brown can look into a persons eyes and tell them what they are thinking. But these arn't magical power, they are just tricks of their trade. Sai Baba has fooled enough people with his basic conjuroring tricks, plucking o the neighbour, or turn the other cheek philosophy as good ethical principles in there own right.[/b]

My point is that there is also a rational explainations for such things, as well the biblical supernatural explaination. Utlimately you can believe one or believe the other. Regardless of this Jesus's basic teachings won't change, you could still follow his love the neighbour, or turn the other cheek philosophy as good ethical principles in there own right.

The miracles are essential to Jesus’ teachings. What do you think the crucifixion was about? Just because there are magicians that can fool people does not mean that true miracles never happen.

Everybody will take what they will from the Bible; in order to get the full message though, it is necessary to believe in God and his miracles.

Originally posted by Jay Peatea
I think many Muslims would disagree that these suicide bombers are following a true Islamic path. Also this arguement is a bit weak because Christain history has an equal number of such examples of barbaric violent behavour, all carried out in the name of Christainity.[/b]

I think many Muslims would disagree that these suicide bombers are following a true Islamic path.

The ones who differ don’t consider it to be true Islam, the ones who blow themselves up do.

Also this argument is a bit weak because Christian history has an equal number of such examples of barbaric violent behavior, all carried out in the name of Christainity.

The point was that there are many examples of differences in Islam as well as Christianity, so the point is valid. It is also important to see Christianity for what it is today.

Originally posted by Jay Peatea
The thing is, is that you can't prove that Jesus did have the ability to raise himself from the dead, contrary to that we can't prove that he didn't. The basic problem is that you believe that Jesus had some special powers, whilst we believe that he was just an ordinary human being. One thing we do know is that Jesus was born of woman, mary, so he must ...[text shortened]... ically Jesus has vastly more chance of being ordinary rather than possessing any magical powers.

The thing is, is that you can't prove that Jesus did have the ability to raise himself from the dead, contrary to that we can't prove that he didn't.

Well He didn't raise Himself, God raised Him from the dead. There were over 500 witnessess that verify this. Of course they are all dead now. But I am not here to prove anything to you or anyone else. Time alone will take care of that. I can't change anyone's mind on anything. It so happens that God works on the hearts of men after they are presented with the truths of His word. That is all I am here for. Christians preach the word of God and then the choice is yours, take it or leave it. The responsibility ultimately lies with you and God. It is obvious you have made your choice, so be it. Jesus claimed He had no power whatsoever.
He only did what His Father commanded, no more, no less.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]The thing is, is that you can't prove that Jesus did have the ability to raise himself from the dead, contrary to that we can't prove that he didn't.

Well He didn't raise Himself, God raised Him from the dead. There were over 500 witnessess that verify this. Of course they are all dead now. But I am not here to prove anything to you or anyo ...[text shortened]... s claimed He had no power whatsoever.
He only did what His Father commanded, no more, no less.[/b]

This gets a non-subscribers rec from me.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]Faith in what?...What I find to be sad is that you seem to have a wealth of knowledge in scripture and church history. The sad part is you don't seem to believe any of it....so you have faith in what?

LOL. Sad? Knowledge and faith have little to do with each other (unless one find
dispositve truth of som ...[text shortened]... ul's hangups about women and
sexuality which were part of his own cultural baggage.

Nemesio[/b]

I trust Scripture dearly and preciously. My trust in their Truth goes beyond their historicity.
I don't need validation to know that the parable of the Good Samariten is God-breathed and,
if I found out tomorrow that Jesus definitively didn't say it, I would still want it to be read
every few years in the

That is the problem, you love the scripture because of the philosophy therein. There are many people that love the book but not the author.
The word of God is wonderful, but I love the author more....God

Originally posted by The Chess Express
The ones who differ don’t consider it to be true Islam, the ones who blow themselves up do.

The point was that there are many examples of differences in Islam as well as Christianity, so the point is valid. It is also important to see Christianity for what it is today.

There are 'Christian' denominations who believe that picketing funerals of
dead homosexuals is part of Christian doctrine. There are 'Christians' who
believe assassinating abortion doctors is part of Christian doctrine, or
murdering prostitutes.

What's your point? There are always going to be fringe, nut-case people
who pervert the essential teachings of a religion to fit their own inhibitions
and hatreds.

Nemesio

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That is the problem, you love the scripture because of the philosophy therein. There are many people that love the book but not the author.
The word of God is wonderful, but I love the author more....God

When you say 'I love God,' what does that entail? Be specific, because
I'll bet it entails in large part attending to His Word (that is, loving the Book).

Nemesio

Originally posted by The Chess Express
The miracles are essential to Jesus’ teachings. What do you think the crucifixion was about? Just because there are magicians that can fool people does not mean that true miracles never happen.

Everybody will take what they will from the Bible; in order to get the full message though, it is necessary to believe in God and his miracles.

Why are they essential?

That is, if someone could prove that just one of the healings was
really just a metaphor for a larger picture OR creative embellishment in
order to demonstrate respect for Jesus (a common Jewish technique),
what would happen to your faith?

Why do you argue that is necessary to believe in all or even some
of the healing miracles?

Nemesio