24 Jul 06
Originally posted by KellyJayI blame God for not having made me a perfect angel who irresistibly inclined towards Him!
They will blame everyone but themselves, including God more than
likely.
Kelly
He made the mistake of giving me free will, and then I sinned. And now He is going to punish me for giving me the capability to sin, when he could have opted not to! (Assuming that God has free will; if he hasn't, all is forgiven.)
I never asked for free will! I want God to take it way, so I can be inevitably good. But nothing changes, I am stuck with it! So I think God should own up for his share of the responsibility in making me a sinner!
24 Jul 06
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeYea, Adam blamed God for giving him Eve. Some things never
I blame God for not having made me a perfect angel who irresistibly inclined towards Him!
He made the mistake of giving me free will, and then I sinned. And now He is going to punish me for giving me the capability to sin, when he could have opted not to! (Assuming that God has free will; if he hasn't, all is forgiven.)
I never asked for free wil ...[text shortened]... ith it! So I think God should own up for his share of the responsibility in making me a sinner!
change.
Kelly
24 Jul 06
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeGod made us mortals so that he would delight more in us than Angels because even through free will we still incline unto him, denying sin though it eats away at our lives.
I blame God for not having made me a perfect angel who irresistibly inclined towards Him!
He made the mistake of giving me free will, and then I sinned. And now He is going to punish me for giving me the capability to sin, when he could have opted not to! (Assuming that God has free will; if he hasn't, all is forgiven.)
I never asked for free wil ...[text shortened]... ith it! So I think God should own up for his share of the responsibility in making me a sinner!
24 Jul 06
Originally posted by royaltystatementWell, I don't think you have that right.
God made us mortals so that he would delight more in us than Angels because even through free will we still incline unto him, denying sin though it eats away at our lives.
Now, let's suppose God gave us free will. If so, we can freely choose good or evil. Now suppose that God delights when we do good -- according to you, the reason He gave us free will. However, if He is emotionally responsive to our doing good, then by the same token it probably pains him when we do evil. Now, if it pains God as much that we do evil as it pleasures him that we do good, and if people choose evil actions as often as they choose good ones (and what self-respecting fundamentalist doesn't believe this?), then the result of God's choice is that He will experience net dissatisfaction from giving human beings free will. That wouldn't be a particularly intelligent thing for an omniscient being to do. I think he would have to have another reason. So, what is it, in your view?
24 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayIf I made a robot with free will, and it freely chose to rape and murder your wife, would you then just blame the robot, or would you blame me too, for being the designer of this unreliable creation with the potential to go either way? After all, I could have made a deterministically angelic robot instead.
Yea, Adam blamed God for giving him Eve. Some things never
change.
Kelly
24 Jul 06
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeI want God to take it way, so I can be inevitably good.
I blame God for not having made me a perfect angel who irresistibly inclined towards Him!
He made the mistake of giving me free will, and then I sinned. And now He is going to punish me for giving me the capability to sin, when he could have opted not to! (Assuming that God has free will; if he hasn't, all is forgiven.)
I never asked for free wil ...[text shortened]... ith it! So I think God should own up for his share of the responsibility in making me a sinner!
Is that your will?
24 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeWell, which is it, does the robot have free will or not? If the robot has
If I made a robot with free will, and it freely chose to rape and murder your wife, would you then just blame the robot, or would you blame me too, for being the designer of this unreliable creation with the potential to go either way? After all, I could have made a deterministically angelic robot instead.
free will we go after the robot, if the robot doesn't have free will we
go after the creator of the robot. The designer either gave free will or
didn't, that which can and does make choices is responsible for the
choices made. If you claim that you can make that which can only
make good choices you are not then making a free will within your
robot, you cannot have it both ways.
Kelly
25 Jul 06
Originally posted by KellyJayEven if the robot has free will, we would blame the inventor for designing and building the damn thing in the first place!
Well, which is it, does the robot have free will or not? If the robot has
free will we go after the robot, if the robot doesn't have free will we
go after the creator of the robot. The designer either gave free will or
didn't, that which can and does make choices is responsible for the
choices made. If you claim that you can make that which can only
ma ...[text shortened]... s you are not then making a free will within your
robot, you cannot have it both ways.
Kelly
If the inventor was omnipotent and knew in advance that the robot was going to kill, then surely he is to blame. If the inventor could have done anything when creating the robot, why did the inventor not put in a "inhibitor chip" which prevents the robot from doing evil deeds?
This is analogous to God.
25 Jul 06
Originally posted by howardgeeBefore it was a matter of will, if the robot had free will it acted on its
Even if the robot has free will, we would blame the inventor for designing and building the damn thing in the first place!
If the inventor was omnipotent and knew in advance that the robot was going to kill, then surely he is to blame. If the inventor could have done anything when creating the robot, why did the inventor not put in a "inhibitor chip" which prevents the robot from doing evil deeds?
This is analogous to God.
own, if you don't want the robot to act on its own you cannot give
it free will. You are now saying it no longer matters if the robot acted
in free will or not, it is knowledge of the creator now? The will of the
robot isn't even part of the equation as far as you are concern right?
If you are given a choice, and you make it, it isn't your fault, because
you had a choice to make, and you made it?
Kelly
25 Jul 06
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, but the whole point is that the inventor gave the robot free will, KNOWING that this free will would result in the death of people.
Before it was a matter of will, if the robot had free will it acted on its
own, if you don't want the robot to act on its own you cannot give
it free will. You are now saying it no longer matters if the robot acted
in free will or not, it is knowledge of the creator now? The will of the
robot isn't even part of the equation as far as you are concern rig ...[text shortened]... you make it, it isn't your fault, because
you had a choice to make, and you made it?
Kelly
The inventor did not have to give the robot free will. It was a bad decision to give the robot free will.
Do you agree?
25 Jul 06
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeYour analogy is disingenuous; the robot will have to rape and murder other robots to have any valid application.
If I made a robot with free will, and it freely chose to rape and murder your wife, would you then just blame the robot, or would you blame me too, for being the designer of this unreliable creation with the potential to go either way?