24 Mar 22
@sonship saidWhy do you repeatedly spam threads?
[b]" Because of this distinction, man will never take part in the Godhead; he will never be a fourth person in the Trinity; he will never be worshipped as God. Because man will never lose his attributes as a creature, he will never be the Creator. Man will forever possess the human form and the human nature; thus, he will never be omnipresent. Man will forever be endowed with ...[text shortened]... ers at Living Stream Ministry]
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=17AB41D70E
Imagine if everybody posted 8 times in a row.
Learn some self-control.
24 Mar 22
@ghost-of-a-duke said8 rubbish posts to boot....
Why do you repeatedly spam threads?
Imagine if everybody posted 8 times in a row.
Learn some self-control.
@sonship saidNothing Biblical here. This is a perfect example why I do not attend a Church; they all think that THEY are the ones who know God and that everyone else is screwed; unless you follow them and their unbiblical teachings of course. 😏
[b]" Because of this distinction, man will never take part in the Godhead; he will never be a fourth person in the Trinity; he will never be worshipped as God. Because man will never lose his attributes as a creature, he will never be the Creator. Man will forever possess the human form and the human nature; thus, he will never be omnipresent. Man will forever be endowed with ...[text shortened]... ers at Living Stream Ministry]
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=17AB41D70E
Please explain a "Godhead"? Scriptures on "Godhead" please? Is this three gods in One God? God is Spirit; that's Scripture. So is this Godhead three different Spirits coming together and agreeing on everything? Or, does this mean that God has a split personality but it's okay, because all the three personalities of God like and agree with each other?
The word "Godhead" is only mentioned in the Greek once; and, It's talking about God's Divinity.
" Because of this distinction, man will never take part in the Godhead; he will never be a fourth person in the Trinity; he will never be worshipped as God. Because man will never lose his attributes as a creature, he will never be the Creator. Man will forever possess the human form and the human nature; thus, he will never be omnipresent. Man will forever be endowed with ...[text shortened]... ers at Living Stream Ministry]
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=17AB41D70E
You:
Nothing Biblical here. This is a perfect example why I do not attend a Church; they all think that THEY are the ones who know God and that everyone else is screwed; unless you follow them and their unbiblical teachings of course.
I am going take that paragraph sentence by sentence.
You point out the unbiblical part specifically.
A.)
Because of this distinction, man will never take part in the Godhead;
Exactly what part of this sentence is unbibical ?
B.)
he will never be a fourth person in the Trinity . . .
Which part of this portion of the sentence is unbiblical?
Be specific. Do not be vague with an emoji.
C.)
he will never be worshipped as God.
What is unbiblical in these seven words?
Please be SPECIFIC rather than general with a cute emoji.
D.)
Because man will never lose his attributes as a creature, he will never be the Creator.
Point out what is UNBIBILCAL in this sentence.
Please be specific rather than general vaguaries about your church going
experience.
Exactly what in these 16 words is UNBIBLICAL?
E.)
Man will forever possess the human form and the human nature;
Please highlight the UNBIBLICAL part in this clause.
F.)
Man will forever be endowed with the limited mental faculties he was given by creation; hence, he will never be omniscient.
Specify what is unbiblical in this sentence.
G.)
God is God both outside of creation and within creation; man can at best be joined to God and thereby become God within the confines of creation."
EXACTLY what is unbiblical in this sentence.
I don't expect you to have atheist Ghost sit in for you.
YOU tell me in these sentences or portions thereof where UNBIBLCAL beliefs or concepts are. Don't come back and say "trinity" is not written in the Bible.
Please explain a "Godhead"? Scriptures on "Godhead" please? Is this three gods in One God? God is Spirit; that's Scripture. So is this Godhead three different Spirits coming together and agreeing on everything? Or, does this mean that God has a split personality but it's okay, because all the three personalities of God like and agree with each other?
The Father is God - "God our Father . . . " ie. ( 1 Cor. 1:2)
The Son is God - "But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever" (Heb. 1:8)
The Holy Spirit is God - " . . . deceived the Holy Spirit . . . you have not lied to men but to God." (See Acts 5:3,4)
The Godhead = Father - Son - Holy Spirit
The word "Godhead" is only mentioned in the Greek once; and, It's talking about God's Divinity.
I'll come back to that. In the mean time in your next post specify the unbiblical parts in A - G above.
@sonship saidBecause of this distinction, man will never take part in the Godhead; Exactly what part of this sentence is unbiblical?
@KingDavid403
[quote] " Because of this distinction, man will never take part in the Godhead; he will never be a fourth person in the Trinity; he will never be worshipped as God. Because man will never lose his attributes as a creature, he will never be the Creator. Man will forever possess the human form and the human nature; thus, he will never be omnipresent. Man will fo ...[text shortened]... ck to that. In the mean time in your next post specify the unbiblical parts in A - G above.
This is common sense; no man will ever be God! No kidding...duh...
he will never be a fourth person in the Trinity . . .
Which part of this portion of the sentence is unbiblical?
The Trinity part; also the quadity part. Nothing mentioned anywhere in Scriptures about either.
C.)he will never be worshipped as God.
Another no kidding... duh!
Because man will never lose his attributes as a creature, he will never be the Creator. Another no kidding... duh! Creature?
Man will forever possess the human form and the human nature;
Please highlight the UNBIBLICAL part in this clause.
Wherever the Bible says that we are going to receive a new incorruptible body without the current human sinful nature...
Man will forever be endowed with the limited mental faculties he was given by creation; hence, he will never be omniscient.
Show us where the Bible says this? you can skip the obvious part that we will never be omniscient. Duh...
God is God both outside of creation and within creation; man can at best be joined to God and thereby become God within the confines of creation."
Show us where this is Biblical? Stupidest thing I've ever heard.
The Father is God - "God our Father . . . " ie. ( 1 Cor. 1:2)
The Son is God - "But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever" (Heb. 1:8)
The Holy Spirit is God - " . . . deceived the Holy Spirit . . . you have not lied to men but to God." (See Acts 5:3,4)
The Godhead = Father - Son - Holy Spirit
You missed the part: and the three are ONE GOD.
[1John 5:7 NKJV] 7 "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."
Furthermore, Jesus was fully a man; and, fully God in the flesh. "The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us." Remember that part?
[John 1:14 NKJV] 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
[1 Titus 2:5 NKJV] 5 For [there is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, [the] Man Christ Jesus,
[James 2:19 NKJV] 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
Now, answer my questions or we are done here.
Because of this distinction, man will never take part in the Godhead; Exactly what part of this sentence is unbiblical?
This is common sense; no man will ever be God! No kidding...duh...
So you say there is nothing UNBIBLICAL about this sentence, but just common sense.
Next.
he will never be a fourth person in the Trinity . . .
Which part of this portion of the sentence is unbiblical?
The Trinity part; also the quadity part. Nothing mentioned anywhere in Scriptures about either.
In this you say the "Trinity" concept is UNBIBLICAL.
That is easy. Your wrong.
In the next post please tell me WHICH one of the Divine "We" is not God.
"Jesus answered and said to Him, If anyone loves Me,, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him" (John 14:23)
Please stay focused on the issue. WHICH ONE of the We there is not God?
Then I can ascertain if the "Trinity" concept is UNBIBICAL.
If both the Father and the Son are God then come together as "We" to make an abode in the believers than the "Trinity" interpretation is BIBLICAL.
Furthermore, Jesus praying to His Father refers to the believers perfected to be in the divine Us. Not as a quandry but as man being in God and God in man.
"That they all may be one; even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also mayt be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me." (John 17:21)
Which one of the divine "Us" (the Son or the Father) is not God?
If both are God then the concept of a "Trinity" is biblical and you err in saying it is not.
If the corporate body of all the saved "may be in Us" then it is biblical that the saved are in the Trinity in a life union, indwelling. And you are unbiblical to say the saved are not in the Triune God (not as the Godhead but as indwelling with His life).
C.)he will never be worshipped as God.
Another no kidding... duh!
Here again, your "dud!" does not mean what was written there is UNBIBLICAL.
Next.
Because man will never lose his attributes as a creature, he will never be the Creator.
Another no kidding... duh! Creature?
This is another one of your "duhs" which does NOT indicate what was written in ubbiblical. You say "dud" for the OPPOSITE reason. It IS BIBLICAL and your "duh" of course means that you recoginize it as such.
The word you put in quotations "Creature" must be your misquote. What was written in the sentence was "Creator".
Man will forever possess the human form and the human nature;
Please highlight the UNBIBLICAL part in this clause.
Wherever the Bible says that we are going to receive a new incorruptible body without the current human sinful nature...
Here you are glaringly incorrect.
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in INCORRUPTION" ( 2 Cor. 15:42)
It is BIBLICAL that eventually the believers receive body of INCORRUPTION.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumper; for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised INCORRUPTIBLE, and we will be changed." (1 Cor. 15:52)
" . . . we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory, according to His operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself." (Philippians 3:20,21)
" . . . we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we oursleves groan, eagerly awaitng sonship, ther redemption of our body." (Rom. 8:23)
Clearly it is BIBLICAL that eventually the body of our humiliation and corruption with the sin nature is changed into "the [sinless] body of His glory" which is part of His salvation - "the redemption of the body" .
Transfiguration eventually to a sinless body is indeed biblical.
Man will forever be endowed with the limited mental faculties he was given by creation; hence, he will never be omniscient.
Show us where the Bible says this? you can skip the obvious part that we will never be omniscient. Duh...
You contradicting yourself. You admit that it is obvious that saved man will bever be omniscient. THEREFORE it follows that you already KNOW that it is biblical that -
"Man will forever be endowed with the limited mental faculties he was given by creation; hence, he will never be omniscient. "
There is no need for me to argue from the Bible something you already admit that is obvious to you.
God is God both outside of creation and within creation; man can at best be joined to God and thereby become God within the confines of creation."
Show us where this is Biblical? Stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Genesis 1:1 proves that God HAD to be OUTSIDE of crestion because He brought the creation into EXISTENCE. So He had to be OUTSIDE and transcendent to what did not YET exist.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Gen. 1:1)
"All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not one thing came into being which has come into being." (John 1:3)
Therefore we know God and the Word Who was God is outside of all things in creation. They all owe their existence to God the Creator.
That the Creator came to be IN His creation is a MAJOR theme of the Bible and especially of the truth of incarnation.
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality." (John 1:14)
He DWELT or TABERNACLED among us in creation. In other words God lived in a man making that man His tabernacle. God created man (Genesis 1:26,27). So the incarnation certianly proves the Creator who was outside of creation came INTO creation tabernacling in a man. And MAN is an item of God's creation.
The Father is God - "God our Father . . . " ie. ( 1 Cor. 1:2)
The Son is God - "But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever" (Heb. 1:8)
The Holy Spirit is God - " . . . deceived the Holy Spirit . . . you have not lied to men but to God." (See Acts 5:3,4)
The Godhead = Father - Son - Holy Spirit
You missed the part: and the three are ONE GOD.
I didn't "miss" anything about there being ONE GOD.
Please QUOTE me anywhere as proclaiming there was MORE THAN ONE God.
[1John 5:7 NKJV] 7 "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."
Furthermore, Jesus was fully a man; and, fully God in the flesh. "The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us." Remember that part?
I never wrote or quoted anything saying there was more than one God . . . PERIOD.
False alarms you are ringing.
There is no reason for me to defend a position that I did not state or do not believe - that there are three Gods, more than one God.
[John 1:14 NKJV] 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Thankyou. That proves that the Creator came INTO His creation, which you asked about before. Glad to see that we agree on this.
I did not see then anything UNBIBLICAL in your accusation that the paragraph I quoted. I see you saying some of the sentences were obvious rather than unbiblical.
And the remaining "questionable" ones I demonstrated to you were biblical.
[1 Titus 2:5 NKJV] 5 For [there is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, [the] Man Christ Jesus,
[James 2:19 NKJV] 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
Those are all good verses . . . NON of which were contradicted in the paragraph.
They are just additional utterances in the same word of God.
But if I am wrong I expect you to show me which one of the divine "We" is not God in John 14:23. And / or which of the divine "Us" is not God in John 17:21)
Now, answer my questions or we are done here.
Some questions at the end were uneccessary as you are asking me to defend
postions which I did not state nor believe. The proof texts added nothing to me.
Unless you show me again which sentence was unbiblical with much more
a convincing explanation, I think you got off to a weak start. The "duhs!" indicate AGREEMENT on a few of the sentences. The remaining ones I think have been shown to be biblical.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Why did the Son of God needed to be "perfected?"
"And having been perfected, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation." (Heb. 5:9)
He had divinity from eternity past.
Why then was there any need for the PERFECT Son of God to be perfected?
25 Mar 22
@sonship saidHere, it is said that Jesus was "made perfect." The term "perfect," in most biblical contexts, carries the idea of completion or maturity. So far, the writer of Hebrews has been explaining how Jesus fulfills the requirements of both a king and a high priest. In order to act as our ultimate High Priest, Jesus had to be fully human (Hebrews 2:17), and to offer prayers and sacrifices on our behalf (Hebrews 5:1; 7). Having done so, Jesus was "made perfect," in the sense of being brought to a complete fulfillment of those conditions.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Why did the Son of God needed to be "perfected?"
"And having been perfected, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation." (Heb. 5:9)
He had divinity from eternity past.
Why then was there any need for the PERFECT Son of God to be perfected?
While Jesus' role as High Priest involves earning eternal salvation for all who believe, the context of this verse must be kept in mind. The "salvation" being mentioned here is not, in fact, the eternal rescue from Hell. This passage is still in the context of Hebrews 1:14, and later verses such as Hebrews 9:15, which are in the context of our "inheritance." As mirrored in Mark 8:34–35, this verse points to the "sanctification" aspect of salvation, which is dependent on our obedience to God.
In the context of obedience, inheritance, and so forth, we can fully understand the writer's meaning. Jesus' role as High Priest makes Him the mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5). His ability to sympathize with our weaknesses (Hebrews 4:15) and our confidence in approaching Him (Hebrews 4:16) mean we are fully equipped for our Christian lives. As the writer will say later, Jesus gives us all we need in order to successfully live out the will of God (Hebrews 7:25; 1 Corinthians 10:13; 2 Peter 1:3–4).
https://www.bibleref.com/Hebrews/5/Hebrews-5-9.html
Here, it is said that Jesus was "made perfect."
"Made perfect" and "perfected" are pretty much the same thing.
"Made perfect" - "perfected" / "perfected" - "made perfect" . . . just about the same thing.
Please continue though.
The term "perfect," in most biblical contexts, carries the idea of completion or maturity.
Okay. So we have the perfect Son of God from eternity with complete deity nonetheless undergoing a kind of process towards "maturity."
That what we see if we believe all that the Scripture teaches.
So far, the writer of Hebrews has been explaining how Jesus fulfills the requirements of both a king and a high priest. In order to act as our ultimate High Priest, Jesus had to be fully human (Hebrews 2:17), and to offer prayers and sacrifices on our behalf (Hebrews 5:1; 7). Having done so, Jesus was "made perfect," in the sense of being brought to a complete fulfillment of those conditions.
That's good. Verse 17 reads "Hebce He should have been made like His brothers in all thinghs that He might become e merciful and faithful High Priest in the thing pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people."
While Jesus' role as High Priest involves earning eternal salvation for all who believe, the context of this verse must be kept in mind. The "salvation" being mentioned here is not, in fact, the eternal rescue from Hell.
I still follow you or whoever is writing this.
This passage is still in the context of Hebrews 1:14, and later verses such as Hebrews 9:15, which are in the context of our "inheritance." As mirrored in Mark 8:34–35, this verse points to the "sanctification" aspect of salvation, which is dependent on our obedience to God.
Okay. This is helpful.
In the context of obedience, inheritance, and so forth, we can fully understand the writer's meaning. Jesus' role as High Priest makes Him the mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5). His ability to sympathize with our weaknesses (Hebrews 4:15) and our confidence in approaching Him (Hebrews 4:16) mean we are fully equipped for our Christian lives. As the writer will say later, Jesus gives us all we need in order to successfully live out the will of God (Hebrews 7:25; 1 Corinthians 10:13; 2 Peter 1:3–4).
Hebrews 7:25 says He us able to save them to the uttermost.
Saving them to the uttermost includes causing them to be led as sons of God into the glorious expression of the Divine Being.
"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things andtherough whom are all things in leadingmany sons into glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect thorugh sufferings." (Heb. 2:10)
Saving them to the uttermost" is not just having their sins utterly forgiven.
But to lead them to express the glory of God.
That is the "so great a salvastion" which we should not neglect of take for granted.
"How shall we excape if we have neglected so great a salvation . . . " (2:3a)
Because He is not only a merciful High Priest but a "Forerunner" He LEADS into that realm of expressing the glory of God - GOING in BEFORE - LEADING others to follow.
"Where the Forerunner is, Jesus, has entered for us, having become forever a High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek" (Heb 6:20)
As High Priest - He was perfected to intercede.
As a Forerunner He not only intercedes but goes BEFORE, Leading, cutting the way, pioneering the path, initiating the way for others to follow.
He is said to enter into the Holy of Holies which was the realm where the Shekinah glory of God was manifested. Into the sphere where the shekinah glory of God is seen Jesus FORERUNS and LEADS His partners there.
" . . . it was impossible for God to lie, we may have strong encouragement, we who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both secure and firm and which enters WITHIN THE VEIL, where the Forerunner, Jesus has entered for us, . . . " (See 6:18-20)
Christ in Hebrews is an interceding sympathetic High Priest for sure.
He is also a Forerunner as a man into the expression of the glory of God leading many sons FOLLOWING Him into that glorious expression.